knocking a break in with an i phone one yer head and a lump o wood worth 20 quid?

[vmax4steve]

whats penny ball snooker?

Taking only what's there and then running away to baulk, even if it's only one red and black with no attempt to split the pack or cannon anything into play.

[vmax4steve]

I will remember this. I'm starting to use side now even though I'm not a 50 break player. Small steps for me.

That one successful shot played with side could be all you need to turn a 30 into a 50.

[cyberheater]

That one successful shot played with side could be all you need to turn a 30 into a 50.

I love that. Thanks.

[j6uk]

Taking only what's there and then running away to baulk, even if it's only one red and black with no attempt to split the pack or cannon anything into play.

okay i get it.. yeah i thought that was really odd. but that may be a bad habit from playing in the handy-caps in england when tel was getting 60+ starts

[j6uk]

a good player won't use side that much and when they do its more so on safety shots. yes its used in the reds but its little flicks off center of the white here and there that you would hardly notice. and they can play that game on any table. a good cueist is the master of the whites sweet spots with, the stun/stun-run

[Giggity1984]

I play side on every single shot.

The fact that it's unintentional should be ignored. LOL.

[j6uk]

I play side on every single shot.

i remember thinking i was a good player zipping the white around the table and fortunately landing on a red

[Terry Davidson]

okay i get it.. yeah i thought that was really odd. but that may be a bad habit from playing in the handy-caps in england when tel was getting 60+ starts

Hey!!! You didn't put an emoticon in there so I'm not sure you're joking or not. Remember the 'vmax rule' which is you can say anything you like as long as you use a happy face, making it all a big joke.

I have never, ever received a 60+ start in any handicap tournament (lifetime). When we had the bigger 6-red handicap tournaments here I was a -4 which meant I received 4 points from Cliff or Kirk if they were playing. I can't remember playing in too many handicapped tournaments in the UK although there were some where the pros on tour would have to give up 14 points in a pro-am.

One comment on another vmax post, the tables we played on in the Canadians were very slow and breaking the pack from the black was impossible and the only way to do it was to clip the outside reds which might have given a shot into the middle with no position. I did break the pack from the blue quite a bit and would actually pass on black position in favour of blue if I needed to break the pack. In tournament play I play percentage snooker and will play safe if there is no 70% shot on. I used to be a lot more risky pots and only changed that thinking this year after watching pros pass on more difficult pots where there was a chance of leaving their opponent in there. Based on my record this year it was successful and remember I was THERE AND PLAYING so I know better than any casual observer what it took to win a match under those conditions.

OOPS! forgot the happy face

Terry

[Byrom]

I think you need to learn how to use side first to then learn how to cut it out.

Helping side - clue is in the title really - I find this really useful and I am surprised you advocate not teaching your learners about the use of side until they get to a 50 break standard Terry - I am not wanting to side - another pun - with anyone here but I doubt anyone can get to a 50 break standard without knowing about it or using it - certainly would be a lot harder to achieve.

I think a player goes though stages - when you first discover use of side you do experiment and you do zip the ball all over the table - made me laugh that - and enjoy the flashy shots - it can become a habit but then you can develop and adapt and you start to use side more delicately - just traces of it and the like on some stuns and stuff - follow though or stun with side in open play or using the angles to straighten or widen the angle of deflection a white takes off a cushion to aid your positional sense for the line of your next shot - These shots are invaluable for position in the balls as fractions make all the difference as v-max rightly says actually and you well know this too. Use of side also gets you out of a sticky situation when finishing straight on a ball and you need to play out with reverse side to keep things going. Those shots do still come up in a game though - some players choose rather to roll to the long grass and some decide to attack the game use the angles properly stun with side and develop things more - or subtly use bits of side for position as all the pro's do it.

Sure you can take the safe options too but surely its better to know and learn and indeed teach people how to do both so your learners have a choice?

[Terry Davidson]

I think you need to learn how to use side first to then learn how to cut it out.

Helping side - clue is in the title really - I find this really useful and I am surprised you advocate not teaching your learners about the use of side until they get to a 50 break standard Terry - I am not wanting to side - another pun - with anyone here but I doubt anyone can get to a 50 break standard without knowing about it or using it - certainly would be a lot harder to achieve.

I think a player goes though stages - when you first discover use of side you do experiment and you do zip the ball all over the table - made me laugh that - and enjoy the flashy shots - it can become a habit but then you can develop and adapt and you start to use side more delicately - just traces of it and the like on some stuns and stuff - follow though or stun with side in open play or using the angles to straighten or widen the angle of deflection a white takes off a cushion to aid your positional sense for the line of your next shot - These shots are invaluable for position in the balls as fractions make all the difference as v-max rightly says actually and you well know this too. Use of side also gets you out of a sticky situation when finishing straight on a ball and you need to play out with reverse side to keep things going. Those shots do still come up in a game though - some players choose rather to roll to the long grass and some decide to attack the game use the angles properly stun with side and develop things more - or subtly use bits of side for position as all the pro's do it.

Sure you can take the safe options too but surely its better to know and learn and indeed teach people how to do both so your learners have a choice?

I still think a player should reach a reasonable standard first before attempting to use side EXCEPT ON BASIC SHOTS where the pot is easy and the side is required to get position, say a red around the black for position on the blue. I also show them the break shot with side and explain why their cue isn't pointed at the red at all but rather outside the end red.

I also advocate they experiment with side in solo practice but do not use it in a match until they feel they've mastered it. (Beginning players will use way too much side and get hooked on watching the cueball perform amazing stunts. In an actual frame only small amounts of side are usually required and this is what I teach.)

I disagree with the concept of 'helping side' when no cushion is involved as it just makes the pot more difficult since the player has to compensate on the aiming and for a beginner this can't help

Terry

[Byrom]

Well you did not really answer me there - you said and I am quoting yourself here - that you don't teach your learners side until they reach 50 break standard consistently - http://www.thesnookergym.com/forums/...php/t-629.html

I am saying that in reaching that standard they need to know how to use side.

Its ok to admit you can - or might be wrong sometimes you know Tel - I do it all the time with the wife - and I mean that e-motion thing in the right way

Helping side is just that - it helps the pot - which is how it gets its name - you don't need to hit the ball as hard and I find it invaluable especially on a club table so I disagree but that's fine each to their own.

[cyberheater]

I still think a player should reach a reasonable standard first before attempting to use side EXCEPT ON BASIC SHOTS

Yes. I'm only using side on basic shots. Just learning the feel of the shot.

[j6uk]

Hey!!! You didn't put an emoticon in there so I'm not sure you're joking or not. Remember the 'vmax rule' which is you can say anything you like as long as you use a happy face, making it all a big joke.

I have never, ever received a 60+ start in any handicap tournament (lifetime). When we had the bigger 6-red handicap tournaments here I was a -4 which meant I received 4 points from Cliff or Kirk if they were playing. I can't remember playing in too many handicapped tournaments in the UK although there were some where the pros on tour would have to give up 14 points in a pro-am.
oh okay, so you were mixing it and picking out balls with the big boys from the off. it would of broken a lesser man being bashed up by those lads week in week out

One comment on another vmax post, the tables we played on in the Canadians were very slow and breaking the pack from the black was impossible and the only way to do it was to clip the outside reds which might have given a shot into the middle with no position. I did break the pack from the blue quite a bit and would actually pass on black position in favour of blue if I needed to break the pack. In tournament play I play percentage snooker and will play safe if there is no 70% shot on. I used to be a lot more risky pots and only changed that thinking this year after watching pros pass on more difficult pots where there was a chance of leaving their opponent in there. Based on my record this year it was successful and remember I was THERE AND PLAYING so I know better than any casual observer what it took to win a match under those conditions.
OOPS! forgot the happy face

Terry

i think what vmax spotted was your reluctance to play bread and butter shots. in the match below at 1:10:00 you had a 2/3 black to open a few reds but you rolled it in. then on 1:16:00 you had a similar angle 2/3 or 3/4 on a pink to get into the reds but you played safe. there were many more puzzling shot choices in your next matches.. but, i don't remember you missing a long ball

[itsnoteasy]

Sorry if I'm a bit slow but is helping side running side?

[j6uk]

the key to using good controlled side is 'less is more'