knocking a break in with an i phone one yer head and a lump o wood worth 20 quid?

[Terry Davidson]

Sorry if I'm a bit slow but is helping side running side?

'Helping side' is the term used when there is no cushion in play. It actually would turn out to be running side if the cueball contacts a cushion, i.e. - when cutting a ball to the right into a top pocket the player who likes to use helping side would hit the cueball with left-hand side. I've never found it helps me to pot, especially with fine cuts.

Usually it's also bottom with a touch of side. Willie Thorne used it for every shot whether there was a cushion in play or not. It takes a lot of practice to master helping side, especially on slick cloths where the cueball will slide more.

Terry

[Byrom]

It appears on a few threads I have read just for research - because I am sad like that - that this debate has been had before lol maybe someone should put a thread up about using side and we can show a few examples and have this debate elsewhere.

It is had to explain in words for me better to show with video explanations or in person demonstration - I will try and find some if you start a thread -

Basically - I do not want to turn this into a bash Terry thread as I have surely played far worse shots in my time so please don't take me the wrong way Terry - but for demonstration purposes -

The shot that J6UK showed of Terry where he was low on the black could have perhaps been played a few different ways - either plain ball stun or with a bit of stun at the bottom and a tad of running side - to pot the black and split the reds and that would have given him at least a chance to develop things and end the frame at that visit - the side widens the angle on the shot on the black and throws it into the pocket - bread and butter shot as described really but Terry chose here to just drop it in and play a safety next.

Still a reasonable shot in match play when you are in front - I'm not knocking him - why push the boat out - pun for the navy man there - he did really well to get where he did in the competition and you should always try to play to your capabilities - maybe Terry is not himself comfortable using side - I would have tried being a bit more aggressive with my shot choice here - but its a shot I feel more comfortable with than him perhaps.

[itsnoteasy]

'Helping side' is the term used when there is no cushion in play. It actually would turn out to be running side if the cueball contacts a cushion, i.e. - when cutting a ball to the right into a top pocket the player who likes to use helping side would hit the cueball with left-hand side. I've never found it helps me to pot, especially with fine cuts.

Usually it's also bottom with a touch of side. Willie Thorne used it for every shot whether there was a cushion in play or not. It takes a lot of practice to master helping side, especially on slick cloths where the cueball will slide more.

Terry

How is this meant to help? Is it because of the arc of the cue ball . I will play with a touch of side in the example you gave Terry if I wanted to come round the angles to get back up the table a bit.

[ace man]

i think what vmax spotted was your reluctance to play bread and butter shots. in the match below at 1:10:00 you had a 2/3 black to open a few reds but you rolled it in. then on 1:16:00 you had a similar angle 2/3 or 3/4 on a pink to get into the reds but you played safe. there were many more puzzling shot choices in your next matches.. but, i don't remember you missing a long ball

On first one I agree, but don't you think that second position was a bit too difficult? He'd need to put some serious screw on, and since the cueball was a bit close to the cushion, he'd need to elevate a cue a bit right? I don't think second shot is realistic for players who don't have a lot of effortless cue power. And even for those it would have been impressive to say the least.
I am certain that lots of pro players would refuse the second shot...Mark Selby for sure...

The way I see it, Terry is a very good player, but lacks cue power. He plays to his strengths. Maybe you and Vmax have had unrealistic expectations regards his level. I expected him to play at a lower level than what he had shown though.

[Terry Davidson]

i think what vmax spotted was your reluctance to play bread and butter shots. in the match below at 1:10:00 you had a 2/3 black to open a few reds but you rolled it in. then on 1:16:00 you had a similar angle 2/3 or 3/4 on a pink to get into the reds but you played safe. there were many more puzzling shot choices in your next matches.. but, i don't remember you missing a long ball

What are you talking about? I was below the black at 1:10 and as I have already said breaking the pack from the black on that table was difficult and there was rarely any position to be gained. On the pink at 1:16 what position could I get? I would have had to slam the pink into the middle to stun over to the one loose red in the opposite middle but remember the pink would re-spot so the ball may not have been pottable except into the green pocket.

As I said I was there playing and with the camera angle sometimes it's hard to see what's going to happen. Also in tournament play it's usually better to play a good safety than take one a difficult power shot like that pink. Besides, I had a lead and if the pink at power catches the far jaw and comes back to break out the pack for my opponent then I an deep into it (I don't actually remember if that pink would spot or not but I think it would have so it blocked the red at the top of the pack to the top pocket for the black.

Sometimes in a match you have to make difficult choices and since I won the match I think overall I made better choices than my opponent did. Also, I'm just an average player and not a pro and my potting skills have degraded over the years. 25 years ago I would have likely slammed the pink into the middle to keep the break going.

This is why I say to my critics that they should wait until they are into a pressure match like that and see what choices they would make.

In a match when you have a lead you try and protect it and not take on any risky shots if there's a good safety available and as the video shows I believe he actually fouled the black on his next shot due to the roll on the table.

Terry

[jrc750]

... then on 1:16:00 you had a similar angle 2/3 or 3/4 on a pink to get into the reds but you played safe...

Lol are you having a laugh ???
I can't see any player in this world going for the shot you suggest, it would be guaranteed suicide, 1 in 30 shot at best

[Byrom]

Yeah - I agree that was a hard shot J6 picked out but the shot Terry played is actually a very poor shot choice indeed though - if Terry had taken the time to walk to the other end of the table when deciding upon the safety he could have picked out better where he needed to leave the white - then he would have noticed he could have easily laid a snooker simply by playing off the left side of the ball he went for. That might have won him the frame too.

Right slapping myself for being critical - easy to be the ringside commentator after the fact sorry - well done on getting to the final though - great achievement.

[j6uk]

okay the pink would of been a liberty and the white was closer to the cush that i thought but, that black was gagging for it at 1:10:00

[Terry Davidson]

Yeah - I agree that was a hard shot J6 picked out but the shot Terry played is actually a very poor shot choice indeed though - if Terry had taken the time to walk to the other end of the table when deciding upon the safety he could have picked out better where he needed to leave the white - then he would have noticed he could have easily laid a snooker simply by playing off the left side of the ball he went for. That might have won him the frame too.

Right slapping myself for being critical - easy to be the ringside commentator after the fact sorry - well done on getting to the final though - great achievement.

I actually remember that safety shot and I played it exactly the way I intended. If I had snookered him he would have come off the side cushion and rolled gently to the pack of reds, leaving me safe. The shot I picked covered the left side of the pack (as you look at it) and on the right side the black was there so he couldn't play a tick-off safety and in fact he hit the black first giving me 7 points but he still came out with a safety.

Thinking back on it I should have called 'foul and miss', taken the 7 points and had him shoot again from the same position. I think I might have played the side cushion anyway to roll up on the pack as that was his safest option.

Looking at the video again, I played a right stupid shot on the green as it was tie ball and I cinched it instead of playing positively with some top stuff to get the brown into the yellow pocket or even into the middle. Instead I almost snookered myself on the blue by not thinking the shot through. Sometime I get fixated on one pocket for position (brown into the middle) and forget there are 5 other pockets available as in this case with brown into the yellow pocket, which would have been a straight forward shot.

Ace man has it right, I don't have a lot of cue power as I find it difficult to use a longer backswing as I must not draw the cue back straight so when I try the longer backswing I miss a lot of pots - but get all the cue power I need, which isn't much good. One thing I've been trying is to keep the cue on my chest for the entire backswing and delivery and also slowing down and lengthening the backswing and that seems to help. Also, as I get a little older I've noticed my long potting just isn't as good as it used to be and I see that even in the pros when they approach 40yrs.

Terry

[j6uk]

I actually remember that safety shot and I played it exactly the way I intended.

Terry

i quite liked that shot tel. i think if the other dude played a shot like that on me i would of spidged the reds with a screw into baulk, just to see him under pressure in the reds

[Terry Davidson]

i quite liked that shot tel. i think if the other dude played a shot like that on me i would of spidged the reds with a screw into baulk, just to see him under pressure in the reds

To do that shot when close to the cushion and on that cloth no matter how good your cueing technique is you would have needed a 50oz cue and 4ft arms and then you would had at least 2 reds up in baulk if you look at the pack.

Demos was the #1 seed in our round robin group and he is quite capable of running out with the reds spread.

Terry


Terry

[j6uk]

Maybe you and Vmax have had unrealistic expectations regards his level. I expected him to play at a lower level than what he had shown though.

not really, tel made three 147's, in his 40's! one against a pro.. i grew up playing the older players, some fellas in there 70's knocking in 80's for a fiva and the candles, taught me loads. all had great techniques. you never loose your technique

[j6uk]

Demos was the #1 seed in our round robin group and he is quite capable of running out with the reds spread.

not from what i saw but you might be right

[j6uk]

What are you talking about? I was below the black at 1:10 and as I have already said breaking the pack from the black on that table was difficult and there was rarely any position to be gained.
Terry

you had a perfect angle to get into those reds and like me you would've played that shot untold thousands of times. id of tried that shot on a shower rug

[Terry Davidson]

you had a perfect angle to get into those reds and like me you would've played that shot untold thousands of times. id of tried that shot on a shower rug

When I'm in a match and under pressure sometime there are really weird thoughts that go through my mind. I must not have felt confident on that cut-back black so I just grabbed the points (which I know is a bad attitude but you just don't think straight when under the gun). Note it was a little less than 1/2-ball and I would have had to jack the cue up to get the screw on the cueball.

Terry