knocking a break in with an i phone one yer head and a lump o wood worth 20 quid?

[Terry Davidson]

I reckon if I saw one of my matches back on video I would never play again. I would never say anyone plays the wrong shot, you can only play the shot you think is right at the time, i was just interested if the shot was possible, for my own learning.

Did you determine it was a 70% shot or was it less than that? (80% makes it what j6 calls a 'bread & butter'.) In my opinion both at the time and here on my own table with no pressure it was around a 70% pot with power but I never got a good split on the reds (they were tightly packed by the way).

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16587[/ATTACH]
This is a split second after contact, does look half ball.

Put the yellow ball in the plant position on the black and then look at it from the cueball position. Determine if the yellow is covering as a 1/2-ball by seeing if the arc of the black ball is right in the middle of the yellow or vice versa black to yellow ball. I found it was a bit less than 1/2-ball myself.

A 1/2-ball pot (if a player recognizes it) is the only shot other than straight in where you have a definite aiming point for the cue, which is the edge of the object ball.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Jesus wept Terry, do you honestly believe and think about all that

Just take a really good look at Barry Hawkins. Addresses the cue ball with the cue arm slightly behind the vertical, grip still slightly open and therefore the grip doesn't close until after the strike, not right on the strike like what you are trying to achieve.
A really good cue action that drives through the cue ball before the grip closes ensuring a relaxed hit, a good follow through and with much less chance of clutching at the cue before the strike or indeed dropping the shoulder into the shot.

Don't think about it, I just do it naturally. I don't want to copy any of the pros as I would rather play like myself. I could just as easily say 'yeah, but Ronnie, Higgins, Hendry, Murphy and even Stephen Lee have vertical forearms at address. Your example makes no sense at all.

If you are correct how come all the pros aren't behind vertical? Do you think they just missed it somehow and none of their coaches realized it?

If I was going to try an emulate anyone it would be either Steve Davis or Murphy as far as technique goes.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

Did you determine it was a 70% shot or was it less than that? (80% makes it what j6 calls a 'bread & butter'.) In my opinion both at the time and here on my own table with no pressure it was around a 70% pot with power but I never got a good split on the reds (they were tightly packed by the way).

Terry

It's hard to say Terry, as my thoughts on the shot are skewed a bit with playing it over and over, so I learnt how to play it, I wasn't in a pressure situation like you were and I didn't have one shot at it, with someone waiting behind me to punish the result.
About all I can say is I didn't make the shot the first three times(four altogether but I played the first shot as what I thought as a half ball). So all the others are really irrelevant as I would have missed and that would be that. As I said I would have tried to go into the pack, but I'm quite willing to accept that could be naivety on my part as I'm only learning.
I am a bit confused over if it's a half ball etc, it looked like a thick quarter ball to me when playing it today, but J6 is right a quarter ball shot is from down near the pocket as it's a well known in off in billiards , pot the black(well red off the spot)quarter ball with white down near the pocket and it's an in off into the middle. I will check it with the plant set up tomorrow , did you check it this way?, on the video it does look a lot thicker than a quarter ball contact, and if I had to pick one I would go with what J6said and it looked half, even thick half ball, it's a strange one as it looks totally different when playing it live so to speak.
I can't pretend I can spot shots and angles like you guys can, so I can only give a judgment as to how I see the shot, which in the end is what you did and what you played, and it was the right shot for you, and you won, so it was proven to be correct as far as I'm concerned, who knows ,if you were three nil up and buzzing you may have seen things differently , I have never played in a tourney that really means something, only in our league, and I just play flat out attack , a kind of let's see what you've got snooker lol, sometimes I give them a right fright, others I sit on my bum and just watch lol. I have no doubt in myself I would play a different game if it meant something.

[j6uk]

Can't agree with your assessment. The pink black looked like half ball and it was a slight back cut. Getting into the reds at best he could hit the right edge of the pack. CB would likely end up on side cushion. Perhaps if the shot as played with more pace, he could have a thinner safety off the reds. Pink into middle was not a pack opener considering where CB was located. If the CB was 2 feet closer to the pink, then yes, you can put the necessary spin and torque to get into the pack from that location.

yes as i said on a second look it was not really the best angle but, i guess he was plying for the pink so why not pot it and play the white into the middle of the table there was a red that when off the pack. anyway..

[j6uk]

Sounds like a night out I had when I was 19.

good one, yeah i was scratching sniffing around looking for a reply to that whine

[j6uk]

half ball black
halfbb.jpg

[itsnoteasy]

half ball black
[ATTACH=CONFIG]16588[/ATTACH]

Right I know where the difference in the shot is coming from when I set it up. If you start with the bottom left hand bag as a reference point going to the right along the bottom Cush to the first vertical grid line then up to the first horizontal line thats where I had the cue ball as that looked about eight inches from the side Cush and six inches up from the bottom one.

[vmax4steve]

Don't think about it, I just do it naturally. I don't want to copy any of the pros as I would rather play like myself. I could just as easily say 'yeah, but Ronnie, Higgins, Hendry, Murphy and even Stephen Lee have vertical forearms at address. Your example makes no sense at all.

If you are correct how come all the pros aren't behind vertical? Do you think they just missed it somehow and none of their coaches realized it?

If I was going to try an emulate anyone it would be either Steve Davis or Murphy as far as technique goes.

Terry

I'm not saying that this technique should be a given, and you know it, you're just trying anything you can to shoot me down about this.
I'm saying that for people like yourself who have trouble with cue power due to chucking the shoulder into the shot this technique could be a cure.

Steve Davis is a pefect example, for when he lost to Knowles 10-1 in the WSC in '82 his cue arm had encroached to slightly forward of the vertical. In '83 when he came back and won the title his cue arm had moved back to slightly behind the vertical with a more bent cue arm and slightly less cue over his thumb.

This is the sort of mucking about that a tall man like Davis has to go through when using a standard length cue. At his best his cue arm was vertical at address but keeping it like that meant having to bend his bridge arm and have less cue over his thumb to sight the shot.
When the pressure was on against Knowles the cue crept forward for better sighting but that meant the shoulder dropped before the stroke which is what happens with you.
The Hawkins style eliminates this, maybe that's why he plays like that himself, who knows, but for a tall man to play like this means a long enough cue.

I think you're reluctant to try a longer cue because it just might work and then you would look to be wrong. :chargrined:

[pottr]

Now if I had your cue power then it might have been a 'bread and butter' shot but I don't and I have to live with that. Hell, if I had the cue power now that I had when I was 40 years old I likely would have taken it on but the reality is 'limitations' and I have to play within myself. I don't doubt yourself, Ronnie, Murphy, Hendry and a host of others would have potted the black and split the pack and run out

I'm not saying I'd have run out... I do know that you would have been able to play the shot without the difficulty you perceived.

I think you're reluctant to try a longer cue because it just might work and then you would look to be wrong.

I have to defend the bastion of the forum here... He will know what works for him... He was in his day, a top top amateur. He's about 300 years old now and still competing all over the place... Cut him some slack.

Steve Davis is a pefect example, for when he lost to Knowles 10-1 in the WSC in '82 his cue arm had encroached to slightly forward of the vertical. In '83 when he came back and won the title his cue arm had moved back to slightly behind the vertical with a more bent cue arm and slightly less cue over his thumb.

I'm pretty sure, he just simply played ****

[itsnoteasy]

I'm not saying I'd have run out... I do know that you would have been able to play the shot without the difficulty you perceived.


I have to defend the bastion of the forum here... He will know what works for him... He was in his day, a top top amateur. He's about 300 years old now and still competing all over the place... Cut him some slack.


I'm pretty sure, he just simply played ****

Great point about Terry still competing , it does show the drive he must have had in his earlier years, I bet he never gave you a point ,you would have to earn every one.

[pottr]

I've heard some rumblings of a former Thorburn and Thorne practice partner... I play in the same league as he used to and actually have a singles trophy with his name on in my home as it goes... I will take a pic.

He must have been pretty good from the stories I've heard... See my 'tales of Terry' thread.

Not good enough for the all time highest break in that league though... A lad who looks like me sewn that up a few years back

[Byrom]

I think this tread has gone well off course but Terry there is no harm in trying suggested things to aid your game - the forum is not just for people to take your advice buddy - its a two way street and people can notice things that might help your own game so perhaps don't discount all of it -there is not a pro in the world that does not try different things from various different sources- its how they get so good. Then they add what works for them to keep themselves motivated and on that learning curve.

Sure the shot selection is different in the heat of battle and we can all mention things we could have - should have done and its easy to pick these things out at the end of a game for anyone who plays it - just banter really. I get it too why the hell did you take that shot blah blah blah - all part of the fun of the fair. I know they are right but hey only a bit of fun - I give it em back - - - - hey who are you Ronnie o Sullivan? - or hey I never seen it you know (admit it) but if you played half as good as you talked you'd be a world champ buddy.

However some of this advice offered here I think might actually be useful -

I discovered for example a jabby action - which I have occasionally been prone to in the past myself was caused by gripping too soon at the vertical as mentioned - bad timing really. Better for me I found to let the cue do the work through the ball first and then gently squeeze or close- not the right words?- the grip after I had gone through the white and finished the shot.

Someone gave me the same advice as v-max actually - buddy you got a long bridge either get more compact - which did not feel comfortable for me sighting the shot - or get a longer cue and surprisingly too against the general advice from any standard coaching manual on a power shot go - dip the shoulder and go with the cue a tad to keep true and get through the ball more.

I tried out both things even though the latter on power shots seemed odd and went against the general principles of staying perfectly still on every single shot yet surprisingly I found it good advice for my game.

I bought a longer cue and I get through the ball better on those power shots and I am grateful for listening to that guy.

still cant screw back like pottr who I believe gave Judd some lessons too -

[pottr]

still cant screw back like pottr who I believe gave Judd some lessons too -

My record against Judd - P1 W1

I try not to tell people he was 11

John Parrot said to Stephen Hendry when they were chatting on the BBC about Judd's cuepower and JP said something around the lines of:

"you never quite had that shot in your locker did you Stephen... The problem for the rest of us was that you could play the rest of them better than the rest of us combined"

[pottr]

Someone gave me the same advice as v-max actually - buddy you got a long bridge either get more compact - which did not feel comfortable for me sighting the shot - or get a longer cue and surprisingly too against the general advice from any standard coaching manual on a power shot go - dip the shoulder and go with the cue a tad to keep true and get through the ball more.

I tried out both things even though the latter on power shots seemed odd and went against the general principles of staying perfectly still on every single shot yet surprisingly I found it good advice for my game.

I bought a longer cue and I get through the ball better on those power shots and I am grateful for listening to that guy.

The most important thing to power shots... Wait for it...

IS THE GRIP!