knocking a break in with an i phone one yer head and a lump o wood worth 20 quid?

[itsnoteasy]

Cheers Terry.

[vmax4steve]

I tried the 60" pool cue but couldn't get on with it but it may not have been a fair comparison as the cue is 21oz, 12mm with 32mm butt. (A Predator with 'Z' shaft...wanna buy it?)

no thanks Tel, my own cue is 62 inches and 20 oz's

However with the thicker butt I noticed I was gripping the cue differently (even at vertical) and realized I have allowed my grip to get lazy and change over the past few months. I'm supposed to grip the cue between the two joints on both the thumb and forefinger (I think j6 calls it the 'circle' or something similar) with no pressure from the tip of the forefinger but I had been experimenting with using the back 3 fingers like Alex Higgins as Steve Davis recommended it but he warned that it will shorten the backswing and also cost power.

This grip (or actually 'hold' as it's relaxed) has the back of the palm slightly off the cue and back 3 fingers nice and loose but the advantage is those back 3 fingers and the back of the palm don't come onto the butt until just after the time of strike and when they do I get that 'snap' Jimmy White used to talk about as I read somewhere he used the same 1-finger grip.

I only tried 2 frames but I noticed everything improved in accuracy and power. In fact the power was really noticeable right away and as everyone saw on my video I was lacking in power which had never been a problem before.

20 oz's might have a bit to do with that as well.

So I guess you were right as far as the back of the palm not having to be on the butt at address although I use a different method than you recommended as I feel the forearm should be vertical at address or in other words at the bottom of the elbow pendulum. This grip encourages acceleration through the cueball but more importantly more power with good accuracy so it can't be all bad.

The only thing that changes Tel is the fact that everything has moved back two inches from slightly in front of the vertical, as I spotted in your tourny video, to just behind the vertical. Whatever grip you use should stay the same but as you are now slightly behind the vertical at address your grip should be not quite closed. It will close completely after the strike and not right on the strike or even just before the strike which is when you clutch at the cue, that simple blue for game for example.

As an example, I had a 1/4-ball black to come off the top cushion and break the pack and I hit it so well with top spin I missed the pack completely and almost went in-off into the middle. I'll have to trial this and make some adjustments I think as the cueball did the 'curl' but unfortunately too much of it.

So thanks for your input and sorry if I caused any hard feelings.

It took time Tel but thankfully you can know see that what works for me and Sidd and for many taller players is a simple matter of getting a cue that fits your height instead of tinkering around and cramping your cue action around a stick that isn't long enough.

Terry

Persevere with it Tel. Get one of those cheap chinese 60 inchers on ebay, they really are great value, and give it a real go.

[j6uk]

Yes,I like j6 and he knows I do!but he does my head in with his cockney saying! I sometimes get them but I is a simple northern lad. Might try some jellied eels and see if that helps.

let us know how you get on with those eels our lad.
i like the way you come across golfer and you seem to have a very respectable snooker history..
btw i think you can transfer those beatabrick videos quite cheep, you might wanna look into it

[Terry Davidson]

Persevere with it Tel. Get one of those cheap chinese 60 inchers on ebay, they really are great value, and give it a real go.

I'm using my own 58" MW playing cue but 'holding' the cue between the joints of the thumb and forefinger, with the thumb pointed straight down. My forearm is still vertical and not behind it, however the back of the palm is up a bit and the back 3 fingers are now just barely touching the butt at address. As I backswing the back of the palm and back 3 fingers are sort of pushed out of the way by the butt because they are so relaxed. On the delivery the back of the palm comes down to the cue and I get the 'snap' I was talking about. On some shots I noticed I was stopping the cue with just the forefinger and thumb but I'm trying to grip the cue with the back 3 fingers after the strike.

Working with it this morning on the line-up I also found (for some reason) it encourages me to use a longer backswing and so I had to try and reduce the acceleration from what I was used to with the back of the hand grip. Accuracy was good although I dogged a couple of pinks to the middle and also using top spin was tricky as I kept getting too much and running into the reds.

So far the power and accuracy are there.

Terry


I think I still prefer having the forearm vertical at address or at the bottom of the pendulum, rather than behind the vertical but if I needed to go a little behind the vertical with my own cue there's still room to do it. I'm just under 6ft by the way but they say as you age you get shorter so maybe now I'm 5ft11in or so.

[j6uk]

whats the problem tel, cue, so called grip, whats going on? what you looking for?

[throtts]

Nice cueing J6. Would love to have a best of 9 with you one day if I ever come out to UK

He would bottle it LW.

Guys,, anyone can type a good game on a forum if they have watched snooker for a long time..

All players that give it big portions on here are the ones I would love to watch in a comp,, think it would be egg on the face time...

[Terry Davidson]

whats the problem tel, cue, so called grip, whats going on? what you looking for?

I'm looking for what I had years ago which was the ability to accelerate through and beyond the cueball, which I feel is the right way to go.

Awhile ago I was experimenting with the Alex Higgins grip with the back 3 fingers although the great player and coach who advised me to try it did warn me it would shorten the backswing and reduce the amount of power I could generate. At first it proved to be more accurate but lately it has turned into a short and jabby delivery too, really not something I want to do. I noticed it when reviewing the video from the Canadians.

When I was playing around with vmax's idea of a 62" cue by trying out my own 60" pool cue and gripping the cue with the forearm behind vertical it meant I had to alter my grip to the front of the hand instead of the back and take the back of the palm off the cue. I tried a couple of frames that way and just realized all of a sudden that everything felt 'right' and I had reverted to the grip I used to use back in my 'glory years', which is 'holding' the cue with just the top part of the forefinger and thumb, with the back 3 fingers just barely touching the butt and the back of the palm up off the butt a bit.

This means my main knuckles are now parallel with the cue rather than pointing downwards towards the back of the hand and for some reason (can't explain this one) it encourages me to do a longer backswing but the telling point is it helps me to naturally accelerate through and beyond the cueball. The drawback is I get much more power so I'll have to re-learn my power application.

I'm not going to try and grip the cue behind the vertical as I think the elbow should be like a pendulum and at the address position a player should be at the bottom of the pendulum, or in other words the forearm should be vertical. The cue is kept level by its movement inside the grip and dropping the elbow slightly on a longer backswing but I'm trying to NOT drop the elbow on delivery to maintain the accuracy that method gives me.

I'm not going to take up vmax's suggestion of a 62" cue as I'm just under 6ft and I think my 58" playing cue is fine and I can accomplish what I need to do with it. Maybe vmax is 6ft5in or has longer arms or something

Terry

[ace man]

Not sure how smart it is to frequently change styles, grips...etc. For what? Big cue power? Too late now I think. Never going to happen.
That is something that needed to be worked on from youth. I am pretty sure guy like Robertson has developed massive cue power many years ago when very young. Also he must have worked on it regularly in order to perfect it.
I wonder if he ever ripped the cloth in practise?

[Terry Davidson]

Not sure how smart it is to frequently change styles, grips...etc. For what? Big cue power? Too late now I think. Never going to happen.
That is something that needed to be worked on from youth. I am pretty sure guy like Robertson has developed massive cue power many years ago when very young. Also he must have worked on regularly in order to perfect it.

I've reverted to the grip I used when I learned to play. I took the advice of a very good player and coach but that advice worked for him but not very well for me.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

He would bottle it LW.

Guys,, anyone can type a good game on a forum if they have watched snooker for a long time..

All players that give it big portions on here are the ones I would love to watch in a comp,, think it would be egg on the face time...

I'm not sure on that Throtts, I have asked for videos from J6 , but he needn't bother from my point of view, as anyone can see he can play just from that one shot on the pink.

[itsnoteasy]

Terry have you always had a very quick action , with no pause? Or was it different back in the day.

[throtts]

I'm not sure on that Throtts, I have asked for videos from J6 , but he needn't bother from my point of view, as anyone can see he can play just from that one shot on the pink.

That was on his 31st attempt though,, lol....

[itsnoteasy]

Ha! Fair enough, it's still less than I took when I tried it.

[vmax4steve]

I'm not going to take up vmax's suggestion of a 62" cue as I'm just under 6ft and I think my 58" playing cue is fine and I can accomplish what I need to do with it. Maybe vmax is 6ft5in or has longer arms or something

Terry

I didn't suggest that Tel, 62 is the length I have as I'm six two with long arms, 60 inches would suit you.
62 inches sounds a little extreme but the reality is that extra four inches over the norm is just the width of the knuckles of my hand and puts my cue arm slightly behind the vertical with 12 inches of cue over my thumb with a straight bridge arm, something that a player of five foot six can get with a normal length cue.

[j6uk]

I'm looking for what I had years ago which was the ability to accelerate through and beyond the cueball, which I feel is the right way to go.

Terry

i see, but have you not always played with this pecker like action? it looks ingrained. a style of play you would of tried to emulate form watching the most successful canadian player from your era thorburn. am i right? the most famous higgins was another one of many just to name a few.
also while we're on technique i didn't see you step back and step into the shot at the canadians, again this looks ingrained and reminiscent of the past. then there was the unstable bridge with dancing fingers, the finger tips moving while feathering and lifting off the bed. also with you frequently talking about the grip thing, it all adds up to you kinda wanting a technique makeover. and im wondering know this could be a achieved because i remember you going through all this with nic barrows several years ago, now i know you've said a number of times things have changed since then , but for me i don't see it.
having a longer cue will not help timing the ball and the ability to get through the white consistently, cue length is more about adjustments, after all im 6'4 and play with a 16oz 57" club cue. but that aside for now. from what ive said above i think we're really only left with what is ingrained along with some not very good habits.
i won't go into it too much here and now but i would be willing to respectfully take this up with you some other time