Knee pain in square on stance

[DDadams]

Hey there,

I'll be honest, I'm much more of a pool player, but after getting coaching from professional pool coaches that didn't seem to help I turned to snooker instructional videos, books, clips, anything.

Snooker fundamentals have brought my game to life to a whole new level. The American pool stance is just too loosey-goosey. I have no stability and it's extremely hard to keep my arm in line.

My big problem now though is that when I'm in a square on stance like Del Hill recommends on youtube my right knee HURTS BAD after I finally take a break and actually bend it. I've started to wear a knee brace that has helped a little but I feel like I'm actually destroying my knee a little bit in doing this.

Any advice on the matter? Anyone else have this issue?

[thelongbomber]

Hey there,

I'll be honest, I'm much more of a pool player, but after getting coaching from professional pool coaches that didn't seem to help I turned to snooker instructional videos, books, clips, anything.

Snooker fundamentals have brought my game to life to a whole new level. The American pool stance is just too loosey-goosey. I have no stability and it's extremely hard to keep my arm in line.

My big problem now though is that when I'm in a square on stance like Del Hill recommends on youtube my right knee HURTS BAD after I finally take a break and actually bend it. I've started to wear a knee brace that has helped a little but I feel like I'm actually destroying my knee a little bit in doing this.

Any advice on the matter? Anyone else have this issue?

I wouldn't be surprised to say the least. I suppose the typical snooker square stance would induce the pain you speak of considering that the knee isn't meant to be a relatively static joint forced into position. I don't know anyone that has that issue though I have seen at least one pro walk around with a limp. Ronnie supposedly runs daily, so if anyone is going to have knee pain, it would be him.

A few solutions you can try. As both my parents both have severe arthritis and I'm helping rehab them, I have discovered a few things that are definitely helping. Firstly, the joints in the body are one of the many hiding places for toxins (fat is another one). The most common toxins in the Western diet by far is meat and milk for various reasons I won't mention here. Remove all milk and milk products from your diet for 3 days and see how you feel in your knee. Even harder, remove all fried and processed foods. Just try eating whole foods and minimizing red meat from your diet for a 3 day period. Just look at and research some of these links. Research and then test and then make up your mind.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/29...-milk-protein/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-m...-mucus-a-myth/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/upro...uses-of-death/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/diet...oid-arthritis/

Personally, I found after nearly eliminating milk from my diet (still have it in my coffee though) that my joints, and arthritis in my hands disappeared. I'm also experimenting with Vitamin C as this seems to be helping overall lower body pain. I take this one: http://www.naturalfoodshop.com/groce...-capsules-5008

There are at least a dozen other super foods I'm taking as well that I can tell you more about in PM if you like. I have been researching longevity and human health for a few years now and have a lot of other resources I can share with you.

Secondly, it could be a muscular related issue. There are many muscles in your knee that isolate and strengthen the knee joints so maybe some exercises are required. The knees are also affected by other postural imbalances, so your issues might be somewhere else like flat feet, neck problems, posture issues, or somewhere else in your body that seems unrelated. Check out these links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Syiob837Oc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_GV4C1STQ

If all this info intrigues you, then also look at videos and info from David Wolfe (take his advice with a grain of salt), and Josh Rubin from East West Healing. Both have in depth knowledge in human physiology and super foods.

Best of luck.

[DDadams]

I wouldn't be surprised to say the least. I suppose the typical snooker square stance would induce the pain you speak of considering that the knee isn't meant to be a relatively static joint forced into position. I don't know anyone that has that issue though I have seen at least one pro walk around with a limp. Ronnie supposedly runs daily, so if anyone is going to have knee pain, it would be him.

A few solutions you can try. As both my parents both have severe arthritis and I'm helping rehab them, I have discovered a few things that are definitely helping. Firstly, the joints in the body are one of the many hiding places for toxins (fat is another one). The most common toxins in the Western diet by far is meat and milk for various reasons I won't mention here. Remove all milk and milk products from your diet for 3 days and see how you feel in your knee. Even harder, remove all fried and processed foods. Just try eating whole foods and minimizing red meat from your diet for a 3 day period. Just look at and research some of these links. Research and then test and then make up your mind.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/29...-milk-protein/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/is-m...-mucus-a-myth/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/upro...uses-of-death/
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/diet...oid-arthritis/

Personally, I found after nearly eliminating milk from my diet (still have it in my coffee though) that my joints, and arthritis in my hands disappeared. I'm also experimenting with Vitamin C as this seems to be helping overall lower body pain. I take this one: http://www.naturalfoodshop.com/groce...-capsules-5008

There are at least a dozen other super foods I'm taking as well that I can tell you more about in PM if you like. I have been researching longevity and human health for a few years now and have a lot of other resources I can share with you.

Secondly, it could be a muscular related issue. There are many muscles in your knee that isolate and strengthen the knee joints so maybe some exercises are required. The knees are also affected by other postural imbalances, so your issues might be somewhere else like flat feet, neck problems, posture issues, or somewhere else in your body that seems unrelated. Check out these links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Syiob837Oc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_GV4C1STQ

If all this info intrigues you, then also look at videos and info from David Wolfe (take his advice with a grain of salt), and Josh Rubin from East West Healing. Both have in depth knowledge in human physiology and super foods.

Best of luck.

IRONICALLY ENOUGH, I am actually a vegan. I wholeheartedly agree with your choice in lifestyle/dietary recommendations.

I DID used to compete heavily in kickboxing and that did in fact slightly mess up my knees and back as well. So I know that's something I won't be able to just change.

I was more wondering what others may have tried stance wise to help.

Maybe I need to use a boxer stance instead? The square on stance just gives me so much more accuracy it's unbelievable.

[itsnoteasy]

Just turn your foot out slightly, it shouldn't be pointing straight down as when you twist to get your hips and bum out the way to go down on the shot this will put pressure on the knee, or try a boxers stance .
Sorry I should have asked this before I answered, is it sidey side or backy front pain you get.

[DDadams]

Just turn your foot out slightly, it shouldn't be pointing straight down as when you twist to get your hips and bum out the way to go down on the shot this will put pressure on the knee, or try a boxers stance .
Sorry I should have asked this before I answered, is it sidey side or backy front pain you get.

Definitely frontward pain.

It isn't apparent until I stop and bend my knee.

I can play for 14 hours straight if I don't sit and bend my knee. As soon as I bend my knee I'm screwed with the pain. It sucks.

[andy carson]

sounds like iliotibial band syndrome to me! (iliotibial band is a tendon that goes from ankle to hip, and can get stretched and rub around the knee joint - common in runners and bike riders also golfists (where my problem stems from)

i suffer from it even playing snooker and have to adapt my stance to be a bit less painful when playing now. easily treatable with podiatry, painkillers, physio and dry needling.

first things first get your doc to get it checked out and a referall for xray just to check it over inside, blood test for arthritis, and take it from there

[itsnoteasy]

Don't play for that long,it's too much, what about between shots are you exercising and bending the joint then? Do you get the pain straight away or after hours. I am totally guessing here but it sounds like a stance issue rather than anything more sinister but it needs sorting before you do some real damage, do you have your feet pointing straight down parallel ? Are you leaning back or forward or to the side? Is it ligament or muscle pain( as far as you can tell) can't you try one leg just a few inches in front ,is your weight evenly spread or more to one side, I am just trying to think of as many things that can affect the stance as possible to try to narrow it down a bit, a video would help, one of the coaches or top players on here would probably sort you out in a few seconds if they could see you play.

[DDadams]

Don't play for that long,it's too much, what about between shots are you exercising and bending the joint then? Do you get the pain straight away or after hours. I am totally guessing here but it sounds like a stance issue rather than anything more sinister but it needs sorting before you do some real damage, do you have your feet pointing straight down parallel ? Are you leaning back or forward or to the side? Is it ligament or muscle pain( as far as you can tell) can't you try one leg just a few inches in front ,is your weight evenly spread or more to one side, I am just trying to think of as many things that can affect the stance as possible to try to narrow it down a bit, a video would help, one of the coaches or top players on here would probably sort you out in a few seconds if they could see you play.

I have started bending it every rack or so a few times here and there to get it out and get the muscles going. Whatevers going on it feels TIGHT when I bend it.

I get the pain after about an hour or so of play. However, the pain doesn't get any worse after 1 hour versus 10 hours. It's the same. It just lasts a good while after. I feel it the next day a bit in the morning and then it goes away until I start playing later in the day. I do play every day and have no intention of stopping. I usually average 3-5 hours on the low end.

I have my right foot (right handed player) pointed directly down the line IDEALLY but have since started pointing it outward to the right like a boxer stance. I feel like I actually lose a bit of accuracy doing this though??? Maybe it's just in my head or it's me thinking that I lose accuracy, which is causing me to actually lose it because I feel like it would.

I am actually not sure if I lean forward or back. I feel like I may be leaning backwards.

I've been doing a LOT of experimenting with this to try and find an ideal stance. I WISH there was a snooker coach in my area but alas, on the directory there aren't even any in the USA. The closest to me is Terry Davidson and that's about a 9 hour drive. I may end up making the trip and staying up there for two long days if I can book something with him later this year.

Anyone here get any lessons from him? Any reviews? Recommendations?

My weight distribution may have been the problem as before I was in fact putting around 70% on my right leg. I'm trying to balance it to 50/50 now. Worked on this a bit today. Just required me get a bit closer and lean a little more forward to get it all comfy.

I'll try to get a good video set up of how I stand. Should I just set it up on one side of the table and shoot several shots from different angles ?



I REALLY appreciate all the help already. You guys are so friendly here. It's amazing.

[bolton-cueman]

Just turn your foot out slightly, it shouldn't be pointing straight down as when you twist to get your hips and bum out the way to go down on the shot this will put pressure on the knee, or try a boxers stance .
Sorry I should have asked this before I answered, is it sidey side or backy front pain you get.

spot on! try turning your foot outwards slightly - keep your heel on the line, but just turn your foot to a comfortable spot for you.

I had a similar problem and this worked for me. (not saying its the solution to your problem!)

[DeanH]

I once had a coaching session with a Dell Hill trained coach and within minutes of trying to do the "pointing" front foot to the shot and pocket and all that both my knees where aching and as I have bad knees (cartilage/accident) I told him I am not doing that anymore - got to say he did seem stumped at that and found it difficult to continue with any flow.
Anyway, the stance and the whole body posture in snooker must be comfortable so I hope DDadams you find a stance for you. This is the problem of using online/DVD coaching that it can NEVER be better than 1to1 with a real-live coach
DD - where about's are you located, maybe there is someone close enough to help you?

[DDadams]

I once had a coaching session with a Dell Hill trained coach and within minutes of trying to do the "pointing" front foot to the shot and pocket and all that both my knees where aching and as I have bad knees (cartilage/accident) I told him I am not doing that anymore - got to say he did seem stumped at that and found it difficult to continue with any flow.
Anyway, the stance and the whole body posture in snooker must be comfortable so I hope DDadams you find a stance for you. This is the problem of using online/DVD coaching that it can NEVER be better than 1to1 with a real-live coach
DD - where about's are you located, maybe there is someone close enough to help you?

I'm in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Good ole USA... Where snooker coaches don't exist lol...

[DeanH]

eeek - I assume not

how far is Alma, Ontario from you?
Terry Davidson has a place there
I mention Terry as he is on TSF and a World Snooker coach and has done Del Hill and Nic Barrow and Terry Griffiths affiliations.

[Terry Davidson]

I'm in Indianapolis, Indiana.

Good ole USA... Where snooker coaches don't exist lol...

OK, you're a good drive from me. I am about 3hrs east of Detroit. There's one mistake on one of the posts as I have never been to see Del Hill but I have IBSF, WPBSA and Terry Griffiths Matchroom certifications.

I am in agreement with most of the comments on here regarding turning BOTH your feet outwards from the line of aim as pointing them both along the line of aim is very bad for knee and ankle pain and perhaps hip pain too. My wife is a physio who is certified in 'Fit for Golf' and 'Fit for Tennis' where she comes up with a technique for players who are experiencing pain when using the orthodox techniques and I checked with her to see what could be done regarding the snooker stance as I was experiencing pain, especially knees.

She recommended I turn both my feet outwards just a bit, perhaps 20* plus I have discovered on my own I am much more comfortable with my left foot slightly ahead of my right (right-handed player). To spare you the expense and time of a long drive first try out this method and see if it relieves your discomfort. I can also attest there is no discernible degradation of accuracy when using the partial boxer stance as accuracy is more dependent on your upper body alignment and how many moving parts you have as a result of that alignment.

Terry

[DeanH]

There's one mistake on one of the posts as I have never been to see Del Hill but I have IBSF, WPBSA and Terry Griffiths Matchroom certifications.

oops my mistake, I thought you had been to everyone of note Terry

[Terry Davidson]

oops my mistake, I thought you had been to everyone of note Terry

I was going to give Del a shot as it always helps to have more opinions and options but I ran out of time on that trip as I did a lot of coaching at SWSA.

I still think it would be of value for me to see and get certified by Del though. From what I've read he does have a few different ideas from some of the rest of the coaches but I believe there's value there.

Terry