long game

[alabadi]

Definitely agree with that.

alibadi:

The second bit of advice from Alan is a great one and I'm glad you found it helped. Keep working on that and remember anything that takes hard concentration is also difficult mentally, but it's well worth it.

Terry

the first bit when looking at the cue was just to see if it actually made a difference , which it did. his analysis was because you are looking at two angles cueball to OB and OB to pocket there is a tendency to guide the cueball towards the OB and as his test proved I was doing this ( not all the time ) but when I lose focus.

the second part as he explained to me, all the pros have done this in there training sometime or another. and again he said by focusing on the path to the OB contact point it stops any premature movements and stops moving the head too to look at the OB and cueball which in affect keeps everything still.

[thelongbomber]

the first bit when looking at the cue was just to see if it actually made a difference , which it did. his analysis was because you are looking at two angles cueball to OB and OB to pocket there is a tendency to guide the cueball towards the OB and as his test proved I was doing this ( not all the time ) but when I lose focus.

the second part as he explained to me, all the pros have done this in there training sometime or another. and again he said by focusing on the path to the OB contact point it stops any premature movements and stops moving the head too to look at the OB and cueball which in affect keeps everything still.

This is exactly what I have been pushing in my various comments. Ignore the OB and pocket. They are meaningless. Just get the cue ball to move down a straight and specific line and you will cue straight. On final strike, look at the OB, but not at it directly. Watch the cue ball make contact before it gets there and cue into that position.

[Byrom]

This is exactly what I have been pushing in my various comments. Ignore the OB and pocket. They are meaningless. Just get the cue ball to move down a straight and specific line and you will cue straight. On final strike, look at the OB, but not at it directly. Watch the cue ball make contact before it gets there and cue into that position.

I agree with some of what you say LB but for me you way of sighting is slightly over complicated by virtue of the fact aiming is not an exact science though in theory it should be - we probably just have not understood the science properly - The one fault with the GB thing you have for me though is on an angled cut close in - depending on how you strike the cue ball the OB can throw off thick with the white slightly is why I only use your method for certain shots. What Alan Trigg is trying to achieve here is eliminating that moment where a player may subconsciously move or aim on the shot when transferring the eyes to the OB. Basically if you stay true to the line on the cue on these shots I suppose that you begin to recall the angle of the shot better and keep true to that line.

Different than just visualising a GB because I for example would perhaps might see a GB on cut shots but then aim slightly thinner or add a trace of side perhaps to counter the throw effect.

Each to there own - I am still like you working on this area of the game and am not close minded like some although very wary now as trying different things in this area has thrown my game completely off track before.

[itsnoteasy]

the first bit when looking at the cue was just to see if it actually made a difference , which it did. his analysis was because you are looking at two angles cueball to OB and OB to pocket there is a tendency to guide the cueball towards the OB and as his test proved I was doing this ( not all the time ) but when I lose focus.

the second part as he explained to me, all the pros have done this in there training sometime or another. and again he said by focusing on the path to the OB contact point it stops any premature movements and stops moving the head too to look at the OB and cueball which in affect keeps everything still.

Sorry I don't understand the first bit, why are you looking at two angles? Once you have selected your line and got down, the pocket is nothing to do with the shot, if it was to stop you flicking your eyes off the shot, I understand, was it for this?

[alabadi]

This is exactly what I have been pushing in my various comments. Ignore the OB and pocket. They are meaningless. Just get the cue ball to move down a straight and specific line and you will cue straight. On final strike, look at the OB, but not at it directly. Watch the cue ball make contact before it gets there and cue into that position.

he wasn't saying ignore the OB, he wanted me to focus on the contact point and to keep my eyes locked even after strike, so he was saing keep looking forward and forget the OB and cueball after contact as they will take care of themselves

[itsnoteasy]

he wasn't saying ignore the OB, he wanted me to focus on the contact point and to keep my eyes locked even after strike, so he was saing keep looking forward and forget the OB and cueball after contact as they will take care of themselves

This is right as far as it works for me, when I manage this I play well, but it's so so hard for me.

[alabadi]

Sorry I don't understand the first bit, why are you looking at two angles? Once you have selected your line and got down, the pocket is nothing to do with the shot, if it was to stop you flicking your eyes off the shot, I understand, was it for this?

what i mean is Alan Trigg was just explaing when you are standing and working out what you are going to do, you look at the path from the OB to the pocket and the Cueball to the OB. i suppose theres two paths, he said angles i just took it as directions.

so what he was saying there are tendancies maybe subconsciously to try and steer the cueball onto the OB to make the second path. therefore focussing on one path by looking directly at the OB contact takes away that error.

i tell you it sounds simple but mentally can be tyring i only spent half an hour doing it at the end of my practice but i felt more tired than the first 2 hours previous.

so my next goal is to try and get it ingrained in my setup to do this on every shot

[itsnoteasy]

Oh sorry Alabadi I read it as once you were down you were checking ob to pocket and cuebal to ob, my mistake.

[vmax4steve]

I had an hours practise this lunchtime and hit the long blues really well, six in a row cracking the back of the pocket. Then started some line up practise and played badly for ten minutes. I stopped and thought about the long blues and why I hit them so well and what the hell I was now doing that was making me miss every third shot.

The answer was the same thing, taking my eye off the object ball both when finding the line of aim and on the strike.

So I shifted down a gear when looking for the line of aim, taking a little more time to place my feet and get the cue on the line I was looking at, but on the stroke I shifted up a gear and delivered the cue as soon as my eyes left the cue ball and looked up at the object ball, giving my eyes no time to go beyond the object ball to the pocket.

I also made a point of making sure that only my eyes moved to the object ball by keeping my head down until the object ball hit the back of the pocket.

Two line up runs that followed and I only missed two pots on each.

So what exactly was causing me to pot better, just one of these things or all of them.

I have to say all of them, slow down my aiming process, play at my natural fast pace when down on the shot but remember to keep locked on to the object ball while keeping my head still until the object ball is potted.

This keeping the head still while playing fast isn't easy, and the fact that I used to move on the shot every time when I played wearing normal glasses to get the object ball in vision, comes back to haunt me at times along with a natural tendancy, when playing fast, to lift my head as soon as the two balls contact each other.

Another different note in my cue case from now on, aim slow, play fast, eyes on BOB, head still.

[itsnoteasy]

Vmax do you think because you were making sure you got down online better, this stopped a bit of conflict between brain eyes and hands, because everything was in tune there was nothing fighting against each other so it was easier to stay locked on?

[vmax4steve]

Vmax do you think because you were making sure you got down online better, this stopped a bit of conflict between brain eyes and hands, because everything was in tune there was nothing fighting against each other so it was easier to stay locked on?

I stated in previous threads that I look at the cue ball when getting down into my stance, and this is true, but when placing my feet I am looking at the contact point on the object ball, and once my left foot hits the ground (right hander) I switch my eyes to the cue ball until down in the stance and addressing the cue ball.

This happens naturally and very quickly when I'm in the zone but very often thought processes mean that it doesn't always happen precisely in that order and that's why I believe that I'm not on the right line of aim when playing badly.
I have slowed this process down somewhat to make sure that I do it every time and it seems to put me on the right line of aim most of the time if I don't look at the cue ball until after my left foot is planted.

It's only about a second slower but feels like it takes about five seconds.

Just as crucial though is not moving my head when switching my eyes to the contact point on the front pause and playing the stroke immediately before my eyes have time to wander somewhere else.

I 'think' I have discovered that this is how I play when in the zone and doing it without any conscious thought, and slowing it down by just a second through deliberation worked this afternoon.

Will it work again in the future ? It surely must do but if just one of these things is missing, I'm playing crap and start tinkering with something else then I'm back to square one, hence the note in my cue case.

And yes you are right, everything felt comfortable and looked correct so there was no conflict between brain, eyes and hand, but it wasn't easier to stay locked on, it was easier to get locked on.
Staying locked on is the biggest battle for me and playing the stroke quickly, without moving my head, before my eyes have time to wander seems to be the way I do it naturally, so from now on I'll try to do it deliberately.

I have to fight against a tendancy I have to slow it down just a tad when playing matches, but if that can be restricted to just the deliberate placing of my feet when aiming and not slowing down the actual time it takes me to play the stroke then I should be OK as I will be on the right line and my eyes won't have time to wander.

[guernseygooner]

I'm in a constant struggle at the moment to try and rediscover some sort of the form I had 20 years ago when big breaks came effortlessly without thought. There was no Internet then so no easy reference, I just played.

My own sort of eureka moment came recently when I twigged just how important feet placement is to the whole cue action (for me anyway). I found I wasn't very consistent with my grip hand being directly over the foot. I noticed sometimes the hand was slightly behind the foot and sometimes in front, which tells me I wasn't vary consistent in my distance to the table when forming my stance. I am convinced this is why I sometimes drop the elbow and other times don't.

I was setting up long pots, placing the cue on the table and walking into the shot with the cue on the table. When I formed my stance around the cue making sure the foot was exactly below the grip I potted almost everything and the ones I missed waggled.

In my case at least, I have been playing long enough that picking out any line is not a problem. I just have to take a lot of care of leading with the cue when getting down and looking down to make sure the feet are correctly placed.

[thelongbomber]

I agree with some of what you say LB but for me you way of sighting is slightly over complicated by virtue of the fact aiming is not an exact science though in theory it should be - we probably just have not understood the science properly - The one fault with the GB thing you have for me though is on an angled cut close in - depending on how you strike the cue ball the OB can throw off thick with the white slightly is why I only use your method for certain shots. What Alan Trigg is trying to achieve here is eliminating that moment where a player may subconsciously move or aim on the shot when transferring the eyes to the OB. Basically if you stay true to the line on the cue on these shots I suppose that you begin to recall the angle of the shot better and keep true to that line.

Different than just visualising a GB because I for example would perhaps might see a GB on cut shots but then aim slightly thinner or add a trace of side perhaps to counter the throw effect.

Each to there own - I am still like you working on this area of the game and am not close minded like some although very wary now as trying different things in this area has thrown my game completely off track before.

There is NO throw effect m8. It's a glitch in popular belief about ball collisions. As long as you are timing the white reasonably well and with center ball, you won't see any throw effect. The percieved throw effect is a side effect of mis-timed white ball striking. And this mis-timing, I believe at least, is sourced from not having our eyes and arm working in unison.

I'm sorry if I have thrown your game off, but to be honest, it's actually good for your game in the long run because you are now a seeker and are willing to ask questions and become aware of something that you might not have considered before.

The issue of your eyes and arm becoming un-hinged from each other and your arm unconsciously swerving the cue, I will guess is coming from your belief that there is throw. It's in your mind and that's making you rely on it. There is no throw. Even if I'm wrong, assume I'm right. Cue as if throw doesn't exist. This will necessitate a more "scientific" and precise approach to ball striking and will reduce your reliance on helping side. Helping side is a crutch and should be removed at all costs. I have done it and it took a long time, but the benefits are profound. Pure center ball gives you a feeling of pure striking like no other and aids on break making and concentration.

[Byrom]

There is NO throw effect m8. It's a glitch in popular belief about ball collisions. As long as you are timing the white reasonably well and with center ball, you won't see any throw effect. The percieved throw effect is a side effect of mis-timed white ball striking. And this mis-timing, I believe at least, is sourced from not having our eyes and arm working in unison.

I'm sorry if I have thrown your game off, but to be honest, it's actually good for your game in the long run because you are now a seeker and are willing to ask questions and become aware of something that you might not have considered before.

The issue of your eyes and arm becoming un-hinged from each other and your arm unconsciously swerving the cue, I will guess is coming from your belief that there is throw. It's in your mind and that's making you rely on it. There is no throw. Even if I'm wrong, assume I'm right. Cue as if throw doesn't exist. This will necessitate a more "scientific" and precise approach to ball striking and will reduce your reliance on helping side. Helping side is a crutch and should be removed at all costs. I have done it and it took a long time, but the benefits are profound. Pure center ball gives you a feeling of pure striking like no other and aids on break making and concentration.

Ok you don't believe me - maybe you should watch this then - I found something in your language.

[Byrom]

I'm in a constant struggle at the moment to try and rediscover some sort of the form I had 20 years ago when big breaks came effortlessly without thought. There was no Internet then so no easy reference, I just played.

My own sort of eureka moment came recently when I twigged just how important feet placement is to the whole cue action (for me anyway). I found I wasn't very consistent with my grip hand being directly over the foot. I noticed sometimes the hand was slightly behind the foot and sometimes in front, which tells me I wasn't vary consistent in my distance to the table when forming my stance. I am convinced this is why I sometimes drop the elbow and other times don't.

I was setting up long pots, placing the cue on the table and walking into the shot with the cue on the table. When I formed my stance around the cue making sure the foot was exactly below the grip I potted almost everything and the ones I missed waggled.

In my case at least, I have been playing long enough that picking out any line is not a problem. I just have to take a lot of care of leading with the cue when getting down and looking down to make sure the feet are correctly placed.

One player I notice exaggerates 'sometimes' when he does this - 'looks down' as he plants his foot on the line of the shot on the way into a long shot is Neil Robertson maybe he only does this if he feels he needs to - I would not recommend taking your eyes off they object ball as you walk in though but he has not got down when he does this and you can be aware of the line as you walk in to plant your feet. I also noticed when Ronnie won the Masters he gave this more effort - by standing in line and was more foot in line with the shot than he had been before - so I think there is probably a lot to be said for consistency in this area.