long game

[ace man]

Yesterday I potted 126 long balls in practise, 6 sets of all balls...object ball random position in line with pink spot or below, cueball behind baulk. Typical shots to nothing. Changing sides and angles all the time...mixing speeds a little, using top, stun and screw. At the same time paying attention where the cueball is going after contact.
Of course, quite a few attempts were needed, but I was also happy with rattling the pocket, narrowly missing or missing to the correct side of the pocket (over cutting much more acceptable than under cutting).
So far I've only done like 20 sets of balls in 3 days. I plan to solely focus only on long pots for the next year. No problem, as I find this fun. Finding enough time will be a problem though.

Interesting thing is that after a while during practise your ball striking becomes a bit better, long balls don't look so far away any more...that's what pure brute force repetition does. I am 100% convinced that there is nothing that can be done to shorten the learning curve at this game. No shortcuts, absolutely none at all.

[guernseygooner]

One player I notice exaggerates 'sometimes' when he does this - 'looks down' as he plants his foot on the line of the shot on the way into a long shot is Neil Robertson maybe he only does this if he feels he needs to - I would not recommend taking your eyes off they object ball as you walk in though but he has not got down when he does this and you can be aware of the line as you walk in to plant your feet. I also noticed when Ronnie won the Masters he gave this more effort - by standing in line and was more foot in line with the shot than he had been before - so I think there is probably a lot to be said for consistency in this area.

I had noticed NR does this quite a lot. I'm not doing it to make sure the foot is on line but more to check that when the tip is at the cue ball and my grip is formed, I'm checking that the foot is directly below the grip as I discovered I wasn't very consistent at this.

I know some people advocate to not worry about the feet but I'm a firm believer that everything starts there. When I get them right everything else seems to fall into place. Who knows, maybe I am concentrating all my effort into that part at the moment that I'm on auto pilot for the rest and hence playing better.

[vmax4steve]

Ok you don't believe me - maybe you should watch this then - I found something in your language.

I'm convinced that the yanks who make these pool videos are selling snake oil cures for all cueing ills or simply don't understand what the cue ball actually does when side is applied.
You could clearly see on the shots down the centre of the table that the bloke wasn't cueing parallel to the centre of the cue ball, but was applying side by coming from outside the line of aim.
No wonder he was getting those results.
And I thought everyone knew about how when playing a dead set plant with the balls touching that one must strike the correct contact point on the first ball otherwise the set can be made to go off course due to the prolonged contact with the cue ball pushing the second ball off line,
known as squeezing in some quarters.
and plants that aren't dead set can still be made using the same principal.

[itsnoteasy]

GG, I have a problem with inconsistent distance from the table, I have recently made my walk in a wee bit longer as it had got to a stage of more or less a straight drop down without a walk in and I was too close, but because of this change sometimes I feel I have stretched a bit for a shot and my grip hand is well in front of my foot, I don't like the idea of taking my eyes off the ball on the way in so I am trying to get my grip hand at my hip with my cue across my body, and sweeping it over but keeping my grip on the hip so to speak , it's early days but it seems to let me get things in the right place and allows me to keep looking at the line of aim.

[guernseygooner]

GG, I have a problem with inconsistent distance from the table, I have recently made my walk in a wee bit longer as it had got to a stage of more or less a straight drop down without a walk in and I was too close, but because of this change sometimes I feel I have stretched a bit for a shot and my grip hand is well in front of my foot, I don't like the idea of taking my eyes off the ball on the way in so I am trying to get my grip hand at my hip with my cue across my body, and sweeping it over but keeping my grip on the hip so to speak , it's early days but it seems to let me get things in the right place and allows me to keep looking at the line of aim.

We all need to find our own way mate of getting into the same position the majority of times as I believe this helps with consistency.

[itsnoteasy]

I agree, I just posted what I was doing to see if it was wrong lol.

[alabadi]

One player I notice exaggerates 'sometimes' when he does this - 'looks down' as he plants his foot on the line of the shot on the way into a long shot is Neil Robertson maybe he only does this if he feels he needs to - .

i've seen other pros doing this Alan McManus and Dechawat Poomjaeng too. they look at there feet as they walk in

[golferson123]

i've seen other pros doing this Alan McManus and Dechawat Poomjaeng too. they look at there feet as they walk in

their shoelaces must keep coming undone

[alabadi]

their shoelaces must keep coming undone

haha nice one

[vmax4steve]

I don't like the idea of taking my eyes off the ball on the way in

As an update to my previous post on this subject, I played my mate saturday night and tried very hard to implement what I had discovered in practise last thursday.
It didn't work and I played at my usual inconsistant standard of potting some great balls, making a few low thirty breaks and missing lots of sitters.

So I went down the club yesterday and tried again, long blues were going in quite regularly so I potted one with deep screw, left a chalk mark on the table and got up from my stance without moving my feet to see exactly where I was standing.
I noticed that the edge of the heel of my right foot (right hander) was on the line of aim between the chalk mark, the blue spot and the corner pocket, toes pointing 45 degrees to the right and my left foot was about three feet wide of and about two feet forward of my right and pointing parallel to the line of aim.

I set up the line up and tried to replicate this exact same feet position for every shot by placing my feet when looking at the floor in relation to the line of aim.
This proved not to work at all and I was crap.

So I tried simply to relax and let it all happen naturally and after twenty minutes I got into a groove and starting potting really well and I noticed something.
I was aware of the position of the cue ball in my peripheral vision as I walked in to my stance, but once consciously aware of this I again started to play crap. So I was doing something with my eyes during the aiming process that was crucial to my feet placement, a split second glance here and there that I wasn't conscioulsy aware of.

So I experimented with looking at different balls at different stages to try to find something I could deliberate on to get my feet into the right place every time.
After a long time I found that if I looked at the cue ball when I placed my right foot, switched to the object ball when I placed my left foot, switched back to the cue ball as I bent down into my stance and kept my focus on the object ball at the moment of the strike that I played very, very consistantly well.

I went back to my long blue chalk mark and tried this deliberation and found that the edge of my right heel was right on the line of aim when I did this.
So I played a few more long blues doing this and had great results, including hitting a few sooooooooooo hard that they cracked the back of the pocket and almost jumped out.

So another note in my cue case this week, cue ball right foot, object ball left foot, cue ball, object ball, head still, strike

J6 said once that he aimed with his feet, I might just have found this. Here's hoping :moon:

[alabadi]

As an update to my previous post on this subject, I played my mate saturday night and tried very hard to implement what I had discovered in practise last thursday.
It didn't work and I played at my usual inconsistant standard of potting some great balls, making a few low thirty breaks and missing lots of sitters.

So I went down the club yesterday and tried again, long blues were going in quite regularly so I potted one with deep screw, left a chalk mark on the table and got up from my stance without moving my feet to see exactly where I was standing.
I noticed that the edge of the heel of my right foot (right hander) was on the line of aim between the chalk mark, the blue spot and the corner pocket, toes pointing 45 degrees to the right and my left foot was about three feet wide of and about two feet forward of my right and pointing parallel to the line of aim.

I set up the line up and tried to replicate this exact same feet position for every shot by placing my feet when looking at the floor in relation to the line of aim.
This proved not to work at all and I was crap.

So I tried simply to relax and let it all happen naturally and after twenty minutes I got into a groove and starting potting really well and I noticed something.
I was aware of the position of the cue ball in my peripheral vision as I walked in to my stance, but once consciously aware of this I again started to play crap. So I was doing something with my eyes during the aiming process that was crucial to my feet placement, a split second glance here and there that I wasn't conscioulsy aware of.

So I experimented with looking at different balls at different stages to try to find something I could deliberate on to get my feet into the right place every time.
After a long time I found that if I looked at the cue ball when I placed my right foot, switched to the object ball when I placed my left foot, switched back to the cue ball as I bent down into my stance and kept my focus on the object ball at the moment of the strike that I played very, very consistantly well.

I went back to my long blue chalk mark and tried this deliberation and found that the edge of my right heel was right on the line of aim when I did this.
So I played a few more long blues doing this and had great results, including hitting a few sooooooooooo hard that they cracked the back of the pocket and almost jumped out.

So another note in my cue case this week, cue ball right foot, object ball left foot, cue ball, object ball, head still, strike

J6 said once that he aimed with his feet, I might just have found this. Here's hoping :moon:

I think this thread has got us all at it now.

i went down to the club on Saturday nigt to do some solo practice. i set up straight long blues and did a 21 ball routine from the yellow side and the same from the green. my best was 11 and that was from the yellow side.

so i then spent the next 2 hours trying different stances i set up a camera and played 5 at a time i kept moving left foot forward backward sligtly left right. and eventually found the most accurate position was right foot heel on the line of the cueball and the blue, the left leg 3 foot to the left but only half a foot forward.
this suprised me because i have been playing naturally with my left foot at least a foot forward of my right. i just played a few other routines after this but was inconsistent and found i wasn't getting my feet into the same position as the long blues.

i might have to practice this for a while because if it works on long blues 80% success surely it means its my optimal stance for getting on line of the shot. i have never before been told anything about my stance from any coaching session i have had which is bugging me becaue i would think if i was't getting lined up correctly this would effect how i played the shot.

i have been known to cue accross the ball rigt to left mainly and i am wondering if it was because of my stance now. if the stance doesn't allow me to be online (even fractionly) this might cause slight conflict from what the eye and brain sees and causes sterering.

[vmax4steve]

I have been known to cue accross the ball rigt to left mainly and i am wondering if it was because of my stance now. if the stance doesn't allow me to be online (even fractionly) this might cause slight conflict from what the eye and brain sees and causes sterering.

I always thought that my right foot was outside the line of aim but I was wrong about this as the heel is just about on it. Looking at the cue ball when placing my right foot puts it where it should be, then looking at the object ball when placing my left foot puts it where it should be.
This seems to be what I do when in the zone and aiming with subconscious glances, as my standard yesterday was very high.

Looking at the object ball only is hit and miss, looking at the cue ball only is also hit and miss and I hope I have found that a combination of the two is surely what I do.
.
Trouble is though that I've had a few eureka moments before and they turned out to be false dawns, but I was making pots yesterday through this deliberate aiming system that I only made before when in a state of no thought. I was still missing a few though, but that was taking my eye off the object ball on the strike, but being on the right line made this easier and as you said Alabadi, I wasn't steering the cue to the contact point from the wrong line of aim (playing across the cue ball) and everything felt more certain and controlled.

[alabadi]

I always thought that my right foot was outside the line of aim but I was wrong about this as the heel is just about on it. Looking at the cue ball when placing my right foot puts it where it should be, then looking at the object ball when placing my left foot puts it where it should be.
This seems to be what I do when in the zone and aiming with subconscious glances, as my standard yesterday was very high.

Looking at the object ball only is hit and miss, looking at the cue ball only is also hit and miss and I hope I have found that a combination of the two is surely what I do.
.
Trouble is though that I've had a few eureka moments before and they turned out to be false dawns, but I was making pots yesterday through this deliberate aiming system that I only made before when in a state of no thought. I was still missing a few though, but that was taking my eye off the object ball on the strike, but being on the right line made this easier and as you said Alabadi, I wasn't steering the cue to the contact point from the wrong line of aim (playing across the cue ball) and everything felt more certain and controlled.

interesting .... i have always had my right foot / heel on the line of the shot, whats giving me most trouble is the left foot placement. i think its as important and i'm not convinced by those who say " just place it where you feel comfortable. i agree that the stance has to be comfortable and not giving discomfort, however it should be that it places the the cue brigehand on the line of aim.

i remember watching the Jack Karnehem clip where he is cueing a straight blue to the middle pocket, and he deliberatly moved his left foot and he explained that it took him off the line of aim.

i think its something i will be looking at although you would think playing now for nearly 5 years i should have this part sorted. could be a case of a bad habbit that has snook in and i haven't noticed

[Terry Davidson]

When a player is testing these different stance theories it would be a lot more accurate a test to play long blues and potting the CB into the same pocket. This will quickly show, even if you pot the blue, if you are striking across the cueball but compensating for that (a real danger) as the cueball will not follow true.

Steve Davis said in one of his old instructional videos if you could pot both balls 10 times in a row then your cue action was better than his. I believe he used this shot as a warm-up exercise.

Terry

[vmax4steve]

When a player is testing these different stance theories it would be a lot more accurate a test to play long blues and potting the CB into the same pocket. This will quickly show, even if you pot the blue, if you are striking across the cueball but compensating for that (a real danger) as the cueball will not follow true.

Steve Davis said in one of his old instructional videos if you could pot both balls 10 times in a row then your cue action was better than his. I believe he used this shot as a warm-up exercise.

Terry

I play to screw back into the opposite pocket or stop the cue ball on the blue spot.
I'm not interested in being better than Steve Davis, just being better than me.
I've been at this for thirty years now and NOT for the first time I think I know what it is I actually do when I'm playing well.
After noticing the cue ball when lining up the shot and believing it was just in my peripheral vision I have come to the conclusion that in fact I take a split second glance at it when placing my right foot on the line of aim and doing this deliberately paid off big time yesterday.
I am playing tomorrow night and hope to test it out in match play then.

I am worried that it will be just another false dawn and that what I was actually doing was the something or things that I usually subconsciously do when playing well, something that I'm still unaware of. I've been through this so many bloody times that I'm actually not looking forward to tomorrow night, the natural pessimist in me keeps saying no.