How often can you clear the colours ?

[alabadi]

i cleared the colours twice in a row, getting on the yellow again from the black. i also have cleared the colours 4 in a row but setting them up from scratch because i got a bad angle on the black to get back on the yellow.

the best i have done out of ten is 5

[itsnoteasy]

I know a pro friend of mine who says he has cleared the colours 11 times in a row, playing onto the yellow from black each time. That's not bad going :0)

That's some going !

[bolton-cueman]

J6 would manage this 11 times in 10 attempts.

[Terry Davidson]

J6 would manage this 11 times in 10 attempts.

Now, now.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

well, I have no comments on this. If that works for you, so be it.
Usually Terry or Vmax or J6 ....give their opinion here ...
they want to help and they know what they are talking about. IMO.
I have no problem with that, I can see that you have'nt either !!! ( good to know !!! ).
Anyway, I'm glad your game has improved, and hope you enjoy Golf and snooker.

I strongly disagree with Les and the comparison with hitting a golf ball is totally specious (meaning...superficially plausible but actually WRONG or misleadingly attractive in appearance). When driving a ball the eventual target is some wide area of the fairway with lotsl of room for error, totally different from snooker. This must be the reason every good bowler looks at the ball as he delivers, or every good dart player looks at his dart as he delivers, or every good archer looks at the arrow, or every good driver looks at the hood of his car (he said with tongue firmly in cheek).

With any pot over 2ft watching the back of the cueball at strike would be virtually the same as closing your eyes on the final backswing. I just can't see how a player could play a long pot accurately without looking at the actual target, which is NOT the pocket in snooker but the back of the OB. He would have to remain absolutely still and have a perfectly straight backswing and delivery with zero deviation and even the pros cannot guarantee that every time.

But I've always said Les has to go his own way and if he believes he plays better this way then that gives him more confidence and he does. I just think he's limiting himself and improvement will be harder to come by.

I'm definitely DONE trying to tell you anything.

Terry

[cyberheater]

With any pot over 2ft watching the back of the cueball at strike would be virtually the same as closing your eyes on the final backswing. I just can't see how a player could play a long pot accurately without looking at the actual target, which is NOT the pocket in snooker but the back of the OB. He would have to remain absolutely still and have a perfectly straight backswing and delivery with zero deviation and even the pros cannot guarantee that every time.

I agree. You might as well close your eyes an pot away. It sounds more like a party trick.

[lesedwards]

I agree. You might as well close your eyes an pot away. It sounds more like a party trick.

Well guys we have been down this road haven't we? Now I will take it one more step. If you have been part of any if Nic Barrows Snooker Gym he actually has a practice where at his front pause he closes his eyes on long Blues. Try it and see what happens. The last time I did it I made 8 out of 10 and 5 out if 10 with eyes open looking at OB. My the tout is when you are looking at the back if OB you tend to steer it and when you are looking at back of CB you push straight through.

[DandyA]

Well guys we have been down this road haven't we? Now I will take it one more step. If you have been part of any if Nic Barrows Snooker Gym he actually has a practice where at his front pause he closes his eyes on long Blues. Try it and see what happens. The last time I did it I made 8 out of 10 and 5 out if 10 with eyes open looking at OB. My the tout is when you are looking at the back if OB you tend to steer it and when you are looking at back of CB you [try to] push straight through.

good post Les and I think that's the crux of it ... the "try to" was added by me

[Terry Davidson]

Well guys we have been down this road haven't we? Now I will take it one more step. If you have been part of any if Nic Barrows Snooker Gym he actually has a practice where at his front pause he closes his eyes on long Blues. Try it and see what happens. The last time I did it I made 8 out of 10 and 5 out if 10 with eyes open looking at OB. My the tout is when you are looking at the back if OB you tend to steer it and when you are looking at back of CB you push straight through.

Les:

Only you could take Nic's exercise entirely out of context. That is a simple exercise which Nic uses to get the student to focus on his grip hand and forearm. Do you think Nic plays with his eyes closed at the time of strike? Not in this lifetime!

If you continue down this road of looking at the CB at time of strike any improvement will become more difficult and eventually you'll get frustrated and most likely give up trying to play competitive and won't even enjoy playing for fun. Of course, it's your decision though but think about this. There are likely 50 million cue sports players in the world and I would bet there aren't more than 50 that look at the back of the cueball on strike.

There's not ONE pro who does that, there's not one great amateur who does that and I believe there's not one good player anywhere who does that. But please, continue on the path you've chosen but remember there won't be one coach anywhere who would be willing to work with you using that method. But hey, Les Edwards is right and the rest of the world is wrong.

Terry

[DandyA]

Les:

Only you could take Nic's exercise entirely out of context. That is a simple exercise which Nic uses to get the student to focus on his grip hand and forearm. Do you think Nic plays with his eyes closed at the time of strike? Not in this lifetime!

If you continue down this road of looking at the CB at time of strike any improvement will become more difficult and eventually you'll get frustrated and most likely give up trying to play competitive and won't even enjoy playing for fun. Of course, it's your decision though but think about this. There are likely 50 million cue sports players in the world and I would bet there aren't more than 50 that look at the back of the cueball on strike.

There's not ONE pro who does that, there's not one great amateur who does that and I believe there's not one good player anywhere who does that. But please, continue on the path you've chosen but remember there won't be one coach anywhere who would be willing to work with you using that method. But hey, Les Edwards is right and the rest of the world is wrong.

Terry

you are welcome to your opinion but please don't go OTT ... there are many players who look at the CB during delivery - no doubt a minority but still many ...

I can only really talk about myself ... I've tried both methods but I prefer looking at the CB during delivery - obviously it depends on getting the cue exactly on the line of aim and then delivering the cue straight (within the margin of error for the shot) but I prefer that to concentrating on the OB and then presumably trying to steer the cue ...

[Terry Davidson]

you are welcome to your opinion but please don't go OTT ... there are many players who look at the CB during delivery - no doubt a minority but still many ...

I can only really talk about myself ... I've tried both methods but I prefer looking at the CB during delivery - obviously it depends on getting the cue exactly on the line of aim and then delivering the cue straight (within the margin of error for the shot) but I prefer that to concentrating on the OB and then presumably trying to steer the cue ...

Both you and Les have stated 'looking at the OB causes you to steer the cue'. That is not correct since it means the player has either picked the wrong line of aim or is delivering the cue crooked. Looking at the object ball does NOT cause a player to steer the cue, and for certain looking at the CB is not the method one needs to correct steering the cue. A straight cue action is what's required to prevent a player from steering.

But besides that, give me the name of a pro who looks at the CB at time of strike and be certain he is not one of those players who flicks his eyes down to the CB during the delivery and then back up to the OB as there are quite a few of them. I have never met any good player who has stated he locks his eyes on the CB during the delivery and doesn't even look at the OB.

Terry

[DandyA]

Both you and Les have stated 'looking at the OB causes you to steer the cue'. That is not correct since it means the player has either picked the wrong line of aim or is delivering the cue crooked. Looking at the object ball does NOT cause a player to steer the cue, and for certain looking at the CB is not the method one needs to correct steering the cue. A straight cue action is what's required to prevent a player from steering.

But besides that, give me the name of a pro who looks at the CB at time of strike and be certain he is not one of those players who flicks his eyes down to the CB during the delivery and then back up to the OB as there are quite a few of them. I have never met any good player who has stated he locks his eyes on the CB during the delivery and doesn't even look at the OB.

Terry

OK, thanks for your well considered response ...

what I can't understand is this ... assuming I've got the potting angle correct, if I have got my cue on the correct line of aim and I deliver it straight then I will make the pot - as will you and anyone else - so how does looking at the OB during delivery help this? I guess you will say that it helps you deliver the cue straight which is fair enough ...

I and other people who look at the CB during delivery have to concentrate more on their line of aim and straight delivery simply because that's all they've got ... and I certainly believe I can be just as accurate by doing this ...

There always has to be a tendency for players who look at the OB during delivery to try to steer the cue - us CB people don't suffer from that ...

I'm not really interested in the details of this pro does this and that pro does that - they all have different cueing actions - and indeed the last time this was discussed at length I personally think the jury is out, many videos of pros were posted and in quite a few cases they seemed to concentrate mostly on the CB possibly switching their gaze to the OB half way through the delivery stroke - too late imo to affect anything (human reaction time is over 100msec) ...

So I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to do it ... both methods work and I personally prefer concentrating on a good line of aim and straight delivery and looking at the CB during delivery ... I've tried both and it doesn't make in my case a huge amount of difference but I prefer it ...

If you can convince me there are cast iron reasons for looking at the OB during delivery, I'd switch back but I don't think there are any ...

[lesedwards]

OK, thanks for your well considered response ...

what I can't understand is this ... assuming I've got the potting angle correct, if I have got my cue on the correct line of aim and I deliver it straight then I will make the pot - as will you and anyone else - so how does looking at the OB during delivery help this? I guess you will say that it helps you deliver the cue straight which is fair enough ...

I and other people who look at the CB during delivery have to concentrate more on their line of aim and straight delivery simply because that's all they've got ... and I certainly believe I can be just as accurate by doing this ...

There always has to be a tendency for players who look at the OB during delivery to try to steer the cue - us CB people don't suffer from that ...

I'm not really interested in the details of this pro does this and that pro does that - they all have different cueing actions - and indeed the last time this was discussed at length I personally think the jury is out, many videos of pros were posted and in quite a few cases they seemed to concentrate mostly on the CB possibly switching their gaze to the OB half way through the delivery stroke - too late imo to affect anything (human reaction time is over 100msec) ...

So I don't believe there is a right or wrong way to do it ... both methods work and I personally prefer concentrating on a good line of aim and straight delivery and looking at the CB during delivery ... I've tried both and it doesn't make in my case a huge amount of difference but I prefer it ...

If you can convince me there are cast iron reasons for looking at the OB during delivery, I'd switch back but I don't think there are any ...

Great Post, I could not have said it any better. I played golf with Cliff Thorburn on Saturday and I Intended to ask him the question CB or OB so I text him and this was his exact reply "You're looking at the cueball. Some value to that for sure"

[Ramon]

I strongly disagree with Les and the comparison with hitting a golf ball is totally specious (meaning...superficially plausible but actually WRONG or misleadingly attractive in appearance). When driving a ball the eventual target is some wide area of the fairway with lotsl of room for error, totally different from snooker. This must be the reason every good bowler looks at the ball as he delivers, or every good dart player looks at his dart as he delivers, or every good archer looks at the arrow, or every good driver looks at the hood of his car (he said with tongue firmly in cheek).

With any pot over 2ft watching the back of the cueball at strike would be virtually the same as closing your eyes on the final backswing. I just can't see how a player could play a long pot accurately without looking at the actual target, which is NOT the pocket in snooker but the back of the OB. He would have to remain absolutely still and have a perfectly straight backswing and delivery with zero deviation and even the pros cannot guarantee that every time.

But I've always said Les has to go his own way and if he believes he plays better this way then that gives him more confidence and he does. I just think he's limiting himself and improvement will be harder to come by.

I'm definitely DONE trying to tell you anything.

Terry

,, personally if I were Les, I would listen to you. If a snooker coach recommends something, it can not hurt to consider that. I'm not a coach but IMHO, looking at the OB, is the right way and help a player to improve his game consistently. There are players who find looking at the OB difficult !! (like Les) ,. but where they are'nt aware of is : their problems has nothing to do with looking at the OB,but their wrong cue action. In other words, they see the target, but they can not send the CB that way because of bad cueing and wrong delivery off The cue. especially players who take a lot of time for a shot (more than necessary). This makes them take their eyes of the target at The time of delivery. (I bet Les and Dany disagree ,, !!!!! sorry guys).!!!!!! there are also many players who look at the OB, but there are not even aware of that !!! they just thinkg that they are CB players,, But they are not !!!!! Anyway, thanks for your replay Terry , and if something is wrong in my statement ,, I hope you correct me. As I said, I'm not a coach, it was just my opinion.

[ace man]

Please guys stop with this cueball vs object ball emphasis. What on Earth does that have to do with clearing colours?
Personally I haven't measured my success rate. But I'd like to think chances of me clearing up colours on their spots is better than not clearing up...provided that I'm on a table that I know. If on a strange table in a different club, chances are much lower...and lower still if I am behind on points.
To me it doesn't matter much whether balls are on their exact spots or in other reasonable pottable positions. Provided a similar clear first easy shot on the yellow, success rate feels about the same.
If any of the balls are on cushion, then it is a show stopper. I might attempt to bring balls of the cushion or even go for cross doubles, but this is only for situations when I'm leading by at least one snooker or feel very ambitious...or desperate...