Should J6 post a video up to prove he's as good as he says Poll..

[guernseygooner]

A lot of people claim to be 'top' players on here but none have videos to back this up. It's a pretty stupid claim to say someone who can make a ton can teach and vice versa. So the guy who recently made his first ton on here is now able to coach but a week ago couldn't?!

Jose Mourinho is a pretty decent coach but never achieved anything as a player. Plenty of other examples in other sports, snooker is no different.

I think people on here need to stop posterising on how good they think they are. If someone asked me for advise I would show them the basics (anyone can know these), tell them to practice a minimum of 20 hours a week for a year and we will see where they are.

[golferson123]

Football coaches are working with world class players Jose mourinho ain't teaching them how to kick a ball! The gist of this thread is that snooker coaches should be able to demonstrate what they teach. I have watched Pete Cowen coach and to my knowledge he is the highest grade coach you can get he couldn't win any comp at all now he's over 60,but watch him hit balls and you can see that he knows it all, can you see rory taking tips of a 24 handicapper.

[guernseygooner]

So why do the pros now still get coaching? The coach isn't a better player. For fine tune ups and mental side.

Which is my point! Anyone can teach the basics needed, it is the player that needs to put the hours in to find his way of delivering the cue straight.

[j6uk]

So why do the pros now still get coaching? The coach isn't a better player. For fine tune ups and mental side.

Which is my point! Anyone can teach the basics needed, it is the player that needs to put the hours in to find his way of delivering the cue straight.

how many coaches you had gooner, anyone we may know?

[golferson123]

So why do the pros now still get coaching? The coach isn't a better player. For fine tune ups and mental side.

Which is my point! Anyone can teach the basics needed, it is the player that needs to put the hours in to find his way of delivering the cue straight.

Because they know more, that's the point

[j6uk]

for me the common thread behind every good coach that i have ever known of is they've all done the work themselves, they truly know how to hit a ball/ their way around the table, and the the key ingredient is they've been in and around the game at a high level for a long time. then for whatever reason they've decided to put their energy into studying the game more and trying to help others

[guernseygooner]

how many coaches you had gooner, anyone we may know?

Zero coaching. Someone showed me the basics when I started at 14. I did my time - 3-4 hours every day after school, line ups, picking balls out. First ton at 17.

I put a vid up on here hoping for some technical revelation that would get me back to my early break building days and no one could offer anything.

[j6uk]

yeah a very familiar story and not too dissimilar to my own. i know you've got some nice players around you and so did i. i had some good coaching early on but i was too wayward, undisciplined, and messing around giving out handycaps and playing for my wages every week to knuckle down properly and grab my potential. it also didn't help knowing that a little cant named ron on the other side of town had just made his first ton at 10.
anyway i'd made a solid player of myself not long after and had a good few tons behind me.. but after taking time out and coming back to it in the late 90's i knuckled down, got on the road and went looking for my true game. though realistically it was too little to late..
i new i had some good coaching from the start and i was around good players as i was growing it wasn't until i looked for my game with a few other coaches, studying more, getting back into the pro am scene, and many more hundreds of hours that i got a better realistic view of me- and how the game works generally

Zero coaching. Someone showed me the basics when I started at 14. I did my time - 3-4 hours every day after school, line ups, picking balls out. First ton at 17.

I put a vid up on here hoping for some technical revelation that would get me back to my early break building days and no one could offer anything.

[DG GIBERT]

I'm too advanced in years to worry about it. Passed it now to become a reasonable player.

Only play usually once a week in the League which consist of two frames ( one single frame and a double )
still able to hit the occasional 50 + my best being a 70.

In my 35 years of playing one thing I am certain of you got to put in quality practice ( many hours) and play against
good players.

I have seen some strange techniques (e.g. Joe Swail) but hours of practice still enabled these players to play well.

[vmax4steve]

Zero coaching. Someone showed me the basics when I started at 14. I did my time - 3-4 hours every day after school, line ups, picking balls out. First ton at 17.

I put a vid up on here hoping for some technical revelation that would get me back to my early break building days and no one could offer anything.

I did, but as there is no video of you in your early break building days to compare to, the onus was on you to look into it.

This is the thing with those who coach the pros, they have video and can pick up on something that has crept into someone's game that could be detrimental.
I myself can do this if I have source material to work on, I can do it from memory it to a certain extent with friends and snooker colleagues that I have known and played with for years as well as pick up on pros who's cue actions have changed over the years.

Anyone can teach the basics, they are well known, and anyone can coach someone to play within the basics, but! they have to have a naturally excellent standard of hand and eye co-ordination. That's something that can't be taught, and without it you're on a hiding to nothing as far as snooker is concerned.

[guernseygooner]

I have no doubt my cueing has changed over the years. It happens as you grow/body shape changes.

What I don't agree on is some people on here so far up themselves saying they wouldn't take advise off someone because they hadn't made a ton. Take Jim (itsnoteasy). He hasn't made a ton but he has had coaching sessions off Chris Small, so why can't he pass on what he has been taught.

[Byrom]

People learn in different capacities - Even this can change - When young I always loved learning but never liked being taught.

In snooker if you get the basics down correct and spend a lot more time on this most important part at the beginning rather than jumping to the more interesting bits and wanting to fly before you can walk you are more likely to progress quicker further down the line - you will have less bad habits to correct or adapt to later on and their is another side to learning to improve your game that does not include potting balls - how many tons has Steve Peters had again?

I think you can learn from anyone - regardless of their own ability. You might however learn a bit more from someone who has the experience - and also be more inclined to listen to someone for advice who has that ability themselves however. I like listening to all quarters - for sometimes the smallest voices can carry the loudest resonance.

I love listening to the opinions on here and this might surprise but I listen especially to the ones that I don't agree with or whom don't agree with me, for I think you can learn more from your unhappy customers as they help you to stay objective to your own contrasting views all the more.

Of course you can learn if you listen and ask questions and practice - I love listening - trouble is not a lot of people do.

I learned by asking questions - and am fascinated by the game and the people who play it. Keep it up Hashtag#interesting debate

I think maybe there may also be a natural side to the game that makes it easier for some to progress than others? Dunno really but on the other hand you can have a bad habit keep it with you all your snooker life adapt it and still play to a high level - Joe Swail is a good example or Selby Ebdon and quite a few others. Maybe there is no exact ideal technique - there is only your own - so perhaps try and improve it and be the best you can be.

Leave this debate with a quote or two -

Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school. -Albert Einstein

I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it.- Picasso

[j6uk]

This is the thing with those who coach the pros, they have video and can pick up on something that has crept into someone's game that could be detrimental.
I myself can do this if I have source material to work on, I can do it from memory it to a certain extent with friends and snooker colleagues that I have known and played with for years as well as pick up on pros who's cue actions have changed over the years.

Anyone can teach the basics, they are well known, and anyone can coach someone to play within the basics, but! they have to have a naturally excellent standard of hand and eye co-ordination. That's something that can't be taught, and without it you're on a hiding to nothing as far as snooker is concerned.

okay, yes, iv been there many times and they keep coming back. they've got the cue, the waistcoat, and even some ronnieisums. but once there hand hits the cloth, they stat cueing, and the shot selection.. you know that theres good good chance their on the wrong horse

[j6uk]

I have no doubt my cueing has changed over the years. It happens as you grow/body shape changes.

What I don't agree on is some people on here so far up themselves saying they wouldn't take advise off someone because they hadn't made a ton. Take Jim (itsnoteasy). He hasn't made a ton but he has had coaching sessions off Chris Small, so why can't he pass on what he has been taught.

itiseasy is straight up, and he can have me. but he dose love a chatt ay! no doubt, hes got some moves.. but i and a few others on here know by what he says, where hes at with the game right now..
and that would be the same with someone at my level and a top amateur/pro

[vmax4steve]

Take Jim (itsnoteasy). He hasn't made a ton but he has had coaching sessions off Chris Small, so why can't he pass on what he has been taught.

I would say that first and foremost that coaching has to bear fruit before anyone else would want to take up on it.

Those who ask for advice on this forum and get it, are far too quick to sprout their thanks to whoever gives it before actually trying it out over several months and letting the rest of us know that it has indeed improved their game.

I've lost count of the number of times I've read " thanks for that Terry" half a hour after the original request for help only to hear nothing about whether the advice worked or not.

You must remember nrage, high break of 26, who had a coaching session from Terry and paraphrased him to the hilt on this forum, yet didn't improve one iota, having gushes of praise thrown his way for nearly everything he posted.
My argument with him was that he could study snooker technique as theory and pass it on, but he wasn't in a position to actually show anyone what to do as he himself couldn't do it and therefore surely he didn't really know that what he was passing on was valid as it hadn't worked for him.

A different argument again is with J6 who can do it, but doesn't seem to be able to put into words just what it is he does.

Those who really struggle at snooker need J6 to be like nrage, talk them through the technique and put it into action so that it can be seen to work.

And to be honest the majority of 20 breakers aren't aware of the real target in snooker and don't look at the object ball. It's pretty much that simple and also that difficult all at the same time, for if you don't naturally sight and focus on the object ball then training yourself to do so is extremely difficult. So difficult that most who try it think it doesn't work; unaware of the fact that they aren't doing it when they think they are.