Helping side

[golferson123]

where on earth did that phrase (english ) come from, asked a few canadians in the 80s and dint get a good answer

[jonny66]

I believe the whole idea of spinning the cueball was introduced to the colonies by an Englishman, so they just call it English.

I'm still not too clear on exactly what helping side is, this is from watching Ian McCulloch (I think) play and Willie Thorne saying "he plays every shot with helping side" I'm guessing only Willie himself can explain exactly what he meant.

[Vitikka]

For some players using running side, it is easier to pot a cut ball (like blue in the middle). That's all there is really.
In pool they think that the weight/friction makes the cut a bit thick if hitting center ball and the side is supposed to negate that.
No really any reason to pay any attention to it, some players just use it because it feels better to them.

[itsnoteasy]

It's not a snooker invention, using helping side was a billiards thing (as far as I know) to begin with and those boys knew a thing or two about how balls react . Maybe with the newer balls on modern cloths it doesn't make a difference now.

[Ramon]

I believe the whole idea of spinning the cueball was introduced to the colonies by an Englishman, so they just call it English.

I'm still not too clear on exactly what helping side is, this is from watching Ian McCulloch (I think) play and Willie Thorne saying "he plays every shot with helping side" I'm guessing only Willie himself can explain exactly what he meant.

What Siz and vmax said here above is the best explanation for helping side. IMO.
I think if you watch , you can learn much better than if you read. Is also important that you try it on snooker table for urself.
Try on youtube,, watch the maximum breaks made by Pro's ( Hendry or ROS..... )/// Then you see how often they use angel shots ( with helping side ) to keep the CB in a small area of the table !!!
the most important thing is that you try it yourself. Is hard to teach someone else playing with helping side. Because the tables are not same with same speed. The cue that each player uses is not the same. For example, if you play with predator laminated Z shaft ,, you will see that the CB responds to side totally different than a regular shaft. And the technique of each player is also not the same. Even the distance between CB and OB is a important factor.
but your technique is ultimately the most important thing !!!!
Anyway, just my opinion,, and I wish you goodluk.

[Byrom]

Side on the cb will tend to throw the ob off course. But in some cases it can be thought of as 'helping side'.

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide. But the frictional force - and hence the amount of throw - will be reduced if the surfaces of the cb and ob are moving too fast in relation to each other. So don't think that the more side you put on, the more throw you get. And if the cb is also rolling or spinning backwards, then this movement between the two balls' surfaces will also reduce the throw effect.

In snooker and UK pool, this can be quite useful.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

2) when potting a ball along the cushion, side can help. Without side, the friction in the cb ob collision will tend to push the ob into the cushion which is not what you want. If you are fairly straight, use a little check & stun which tends to counter this effect. But if you potting at more of an angle, then top & running side can work better (but the explanation is more complex).

There is also the effect that Vmax describes in post #9.

3) eg when you are trying to hold the white but have left yourself too much angle (typically I find on shots to the middle). The effect here is as Vmax describes, the off-centre hit on the white pushes it wide so it comes in to the ob from a different direction, hitting it thicker than it would do otherwise, and allowing you to hold the white. Sometimes. Play with soft screw.

In case 3) the frictional effect of the spin tends to work in the 'wrong' way, ie wanting to make you lose the white. But with enough backspin on the white, the balls will not grip and the frictional effect should not be a problem - at least on a snooker table. With US pool equipment it this shot does not work, and US-pool players do the opposite - playing with 'outside english'. But that's their problem.

Very good explanation - obviously someone here can play a bit

[DandyA]

Side on the cb will tend to throw the ob off course. But in some cases it can be thought of as 'helping side'.

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide. But the frictional force - and hence the amount of throw - will be reduced if the surfaces of the cb and ob are moving too fast in relation to each other. So don't think that the more side you put on, the more throw you get. And if the cb is also rolling or spinning backwards, then this movement between the two balls' surfaces will also reduce the throw effect.

In snooker and UK pool, this can be quite useful.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

2) when potting a ball along the cushion, side can help. Without side, the friction in the cb ob collision will tend to push the ob into the cushion which is not what you want. If you are fairly straight, use a little check & stun which tends to counter this effect. But if you potting at more of an angle, then top & running side can work better (but the explanation is more complex).

There is also the effect that Vmax describes in post #9.

3) eg when you are trying to hold the white but have left yourself too much angle (typically I find on shots to the middle). The effect here is as Vmax describes, the off-centre hit on the white pushes it wide so it comes in to the ob from a different direction, hitting it thicker than it would do otherwise, and allowing you to hold the white. Sometimes. Play with soft screw.

In case 3) the frictional effect of the spin tends to work in the 'wrong' way, ie wanting to make you lose the white. But with enough backspin on the white, the balls will not grip and the frictional effect should not be a problem - at least on a snooker table. With US pool equipment it this shot does not work, and US-pool players do the opposite - playing with 'outside english'. But that's their problem.

Very good explanation - obviously someone here can play a bit

I agree Byrom, a very good post by Siz and also nice to see someone discussing the issues rather than just quoting their own mantra ...

[tedisbill]

I believe the whole idea of spinning the cueball was introduced to the colonies by an Englishman, so they just call it English.

I'm still not too clear on exactly what helping side is, this is from watching Ian McCulloch (I think) play and Willie Thorne saying "he plays every shot with helping side" I'm guessing only Willie himself can explain exactly what he meant.

They just mean when people play with a bit of running side. Lots of players like to play like this for whatever reason.

So an example would be, you're high on the blue, with the White on the green side of the table. You want to split the Reds. Some players might play this shot with left hand side. This is what they mean by helping side. Some players just like to pot the ball with a touch of side.

Another example here of a long red:
snookerexample.jpg

[cyberheater]

Helping side works because the cue ball is deflected from it's straight path by the tip of the cue striking it off centre, arcs back from it's deflected path and therefore strikes the object ball at the correct contact point to pot it, but coming from a slightly different direction, maximum of about no more than an inch. It's this inch that you can use for positional puposes if the angle you have left yourself is a little too straight.

Aim the shot as you would when using side off a cushion ie slightly thicker than a centre ball strike and see where the cue ball ends up as opposed to a centre ball strike.
On modern super fast cloths, where the ball doesn't have to be hit so hard, I suppose there is little use for it, but on thick napped club tables it can be quite useful.

Very little side, if any, is transmitted from the cue ball to the object ball as both balls have highly polished surfaces and friction is at a minimum. The poster of the pool video either doesn't understand what is happening and is putting his own take on the effect he witnesses or is selling a low deflection cue to the gullible. My guess is the latter.

Thank you. That's what I thought. The vid is wrong.

[vmax4steve]

Thank you. That's what I thought. The vid is wrong.

Thanks cyber, appreciate that someone else is noticing these shysters selling stuff to the gullible. There is virtually no friction between the balls as they collide unless there is a speck of dust or chalk right on the contact area; that's when you get friction between the balls and the result is known as a kick.

As far as the plants shown in that video, the poster obviously doesn't understand the effect the cue ball has on a plant when it strikes the first ball at a point different to the exact contact point needed to make the plant.

We all know that a reverse plant (object balls touching) can be made or a dead set plant (object balls touching) can be missed using or because of the push effect of the cue ball as it stays in contact with the first ball for slightly longer than it does when contacting it on the exact spot needed for a plant. This is because all three balls will move together along the bed of the table for a short period before they come apart, therefore the cue ball and first object ball will push the second object ball along the bed before the second object ball breaks free from that contact, thus moving in a different direction.

This is why push shots are not allowed in snooker as the cue tip and cue ball can be used the same way to pot a touching ball that otherwise cannot be potted.

The poster of the video is simply using this effect and mistakenly thinks that side is being transmitted to the object ball/s by the spinning cue ball.

And I'm afraid that Siz is wrong about potting with side along a cushion. Potting a ball with running side along the cushion is a good idea as the side enables the contact point on the object ball to be struck either directly or as a result of the side on the cue ball enabling the cue ball to slide along the cushion for a fraction thus contacting the object ball in the exact spot. So the cue ball can contact the cushion slightly before the object ball and the spin will make it hug the cushion to contact the object ball.
Check side will counteract this effect and is to be avoided as a help to potting the object ball and only played if neccessary for position.

[vmax4steve]

Is this just a "Swerve" shot? for example using side to swerve the cue ball around another ball not on?

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

Sorry Siz but DeanH has it spot on, the cue ball is simply swerving around the ball that's in the way. It's a very small swerve, but a swerve nonetheless.

[cyberheater]

Thanks cyber, appreciate that someone else is noticing these shysters selling stuff to the gullible. There is virtually no friction between the balls as they collide unless there is a speck of dust or chalk right on the contact area; that's when you get friction between the balls and the result is known as a kick.

Yep. A good vid by Nic Barrow.

[itsnoteasy]

Thank you. That's what I thought. The vid is wrong.

So you believe that cue ball , in the video was pushed or deflected out one way came round in an arc and hit the ob from a diferent angle, in the space of six inches? Doesn't happen, go and play a shot with side from around ten inches or less and just line the balls up correctly, not aiming thicker or thinner,you will pot the ball as the distance doesn't allow much to take place, Jim Donnelly showed me this. I don't know what throw is to be honest and yes over a distance depending where on the White you play the side and at what pace you will create an arc, but it doesn't matter what angle you get the White coming in from it still has to hit the contact point correctly to send the ob down the correct path, so you may affect the cue balls path after contact as that has come in from a different angle but you won't affect the OB path because that only has one correct path to take otherwise you would miss wouldn't you?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Is this just a "Swerve" shot? for example using side to swerve the cue ball around another ball not on?

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

Sorry Siz but DeanH has it spot on, the cue ball is simply swerving around the ball that's in the way. It's a very small swerve, but a swerve nonetheless.

No. Siz is correct..there is a world of great info on youtube about how the balls interact when using side. Check Dr Dave's stuff out - if you dare!

[jonny66]

They just mean when people play with a bit of running side. Lots of players like to play like this for whatever reason.

So an example would be, you're high on the blue, with the White on the green side of the table. You want to split the Reds. Some players might play this shot with left hand side. This is what they mean by helping side. Some players just like to pot the ball with a touch of side.

Another example here of a long red:
[ATTACH]17303[/ATTACH]

Thanks, that's all I wanted to know

I will think twice before starting a thread with side in the title next time.