Helping side

[vmax4steve]

I think you're giving Dr. Dave a bit of a bad rap vmax, the only thing he sells are Pool DVD's. I did see a vid with a low deflection shaft, but all he say's about them is that you'll need to change your compensation when using them, I wouldn't call that an advert.

OK mate, set up all Dr. Daves shots and replicate his results then.

[golferson123]

It's simply a bad contact, the new phenolic resin balls are famous for them, doesn't happen with super crystalates. I remember the WSC in 2013 (?) and Ricky Walden got a whole load of them against Barry Hawkins in their semi final.

Golfperson: you are going to have to prove it to me, show me any evidence you have, or can muster, that shows an object ball contacted (not aimed) too thickly or thinly by a cue ball loaded with side and jumping into the pocket.
I don't care about very tiny trace amounts of transmitted side that can be picked up by a very high speed camera, I'm talking about enough friction between the two balls that allows such a thing to happen.

been using this shot for thirty odd years first shown to me by mike watterson and i was a century breaker then and did not know the shot! he used it to create angles where non existed only slight ones but enough all i can say if you dont know it or believe it it dont mean it dont exist. just put the cb 3 inches from the ob and hit it with either side if you are using a cue with a decent shaft with a low amount of throw its self evident. the fact you deny it exists leads me to think your cue throws too much

[Pedantic Stroke]

Gearing 'English' is what I believe the American pool players call helping side. Its the perfect amount of 'outside English'...or outside sidespin that eliminates contact induced throw sending the object ball along the desired path and results in a lot less thick contacts. Dr Dave has created some equation to figure out how much side is required for a given shot....yawn....if like most players, you don't carry your old Casio RX9000 calculator in your case its pointless. The angle of the shot and speed all have an effect on how much outside you need to put on the white. Slower shots around a half ball you need more, firmer shots around a 3/4 pot need less. It takes a lot of practice to figure it out but generally using just a smidge of outside can help if you are adept at using side in the first place.

I believe it works like a gear or a cog, hence why they call it gearing side. I dabble in American pool now and again and with the striped balls especially you can see that using some side on the white makes the object ball have side too....the opposite of what you applied to the white. Its very noticeable in American pool when going for a double. Hit the shot with side and you notice the difference in how the object ball reacts off the cushion. You can alter the object balls final destination massively by using side. You can physically see the object ball has either running or check side, just as if you'd hit the object ball with the tip. I mention American pool because the cushions in that came are more responsive to side. You may not notice it that much on a snooker table.

My thoughts on the matter anyway ��

[DeanH]

I thought "english" was American for "side spin", any and all side spin, either right or left and not necessarily just "helping side", of course helping side is included in the term English.

[rimmer10]

got to disagree transmitted side does occur. and you can squeeze a ob with side on the white

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5cO...layer_embedded

[Ramon]

Gearing 'English' is what I believe the American pool players call helping side. Its the perfect amount of 'outside English'...or outside sidespin that eliminates contact induced throw sending the object ball along the desired path and results in a lot less thick contacts. Dr Dave has created some equation to figure out how much side is required for a given shot....yawn....if like most players, you don't carry your old Casio RX9000 calculator in your case its pointless. The angle of the shot and speed all have an effect on how much outside you need to put on the white. Slower shots around a half ball you need more, firmer shots around a 3/4 pot need less. It takes a lot of practice to figure it out but generally using just a smidge of outside can help if you are adept at using side in the first place.

I believe it works like a gear or a cog, hence why they call it gearing side. I dabble in American pool now and again and with the striped balls especially you can see that using some side on the white makes the object ball have side too....the opposite of what you applied to the white. Its very noticeable in American pool when going for a double. Hit the shot with side and you notice the difference in how the object ball reacts off the cushion. You can alter the object balls final destination massively by using side. You can physically see the object ball has either running or check side, just as if you'd hit the object ball with the tip. I mention American pool because the cushions in that came are more responsive to side. You may not notice it that much on a snooker table.

My thoughts on the matter anyway ��

This is a good post pedantic,
BUT ,,, can I ask you a questions,,? (hope you don't mind).
Do you think ((useing side)) is same as ((useing helping side))???

[travisbickle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5cO...layer_embedded

People who don't believe you can transfer side to the object ball are living in a box! Great video, kills the argument dead.

[Pedantic Stroke]

This is a good post pedantic,
BUT ,,, can I ask you a questions,,? (hope you don't mind).
Do you think ((useing side)) is same as ((useing helping side))???

No, view helping side as a way to aid a tricky pot or a way to adjust the potting angle slightly to hold the cue ball. General side i see as something that's purely for positional purposes to alter the cue balls natural angle off a cushion.

[Terry Davidson]

People who don't believe you can transfer side to the object ball are living in a box! Great video, kills the argument dead.

Not quite. Try the same 2 shots on a snooker table and see where it gets you. That first shot he tried with the cross-bank the 10ball barely went in and I think with smaller and lighter balls in snooker the amount of transferred side would be so small that it wouldn't help anything.

Better off to just think of side as a positional aide when a cushion is involved in cueball travel.

Terry

[travisbickle]

Not quite. Try the same 2 shots on a snooker table and see where it gets you. That first shot he tried with the cross-bank the 10ball barely went in and I think with smaller and lighter balls in snooker the amount of transferred side would be so small that it wouldn't help anything.

Better off to just think of side as a positional aide when a cushion is involved in cueball travel.

Terry

It's works on a snooker table. I've been using this kind of shot for years when you need to straighten up doubles

[rimmer10]

Not quite. Try the same 2 shots on a snooker table and see where it gets you. That first shot he tried with the cross-bank the 10ball barely went in and I think with smaller and lighter balls in snooker the amount of transferred side would be so small that it wouldn't help anything.

Better off to just think of side as a positional aide when a cushion is involved in cueball travel.

Terry

What's important is the difference of mass between the 2 balls. If they are both the same then the reaction should always be the same regardless of weight or size.

[Byrom]

I am having de ja vue - have we not had this discussion before?

[Siz]

It's works on a snooker table. I've been using this kind of shot for years when you need to straighten up doubles

And I've been using it for years on softly hit doubles to stop them straightening up....

Another thought occurs to me: the original poster might have been referring to something completely different - Willie Thorne referring to a player using 'helping side' on many of his shots might be a reference to using running side when going off 2 or 3 cushions (I am talking about going 'round the angles' not across the table). I seem to remember that some billiards players used to call this using 'natural side'. (Or was it 3-cushion players?) Anyway, it would not surprise me if the term 'helping side' was also used in these circumstances in some parts of the country. Anyone here from Leicestershire?

[rimmer10]

I am having de ja vue - have we not had this discussion before?

Nothing better to do at the moment.

[rimmer10]

And I've been using it for years on softly hit doubles to stop them straightening up..

Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the harder you hit a double the more the object ball straightens up since it buries itself into the cushion more.