Helping side

[Byrom]

Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the harder you hit a double the more the object ball straightens up since it buries itself into the cushion more.

this is correct too

[rimmer10]

this is correct too

Thought so, was getting a bit confused. Thanks mate

[Siz]

Pardon my ignorance, but I always thought the harder you hit a double the more the object ball straightens up since it buries itself into the cushion more.

Yes, a ball hit firmly into the cushion will come off square. You cannot do anything about this by putting side on the cb, as this will not have any appreciable effect on the ob when the shot is played firmly (as Nick Barrow's video pasted earlier in this thread demonstrates).

But a softly played double can also come off the cushion wider or straighter than normal if the cb goes across the face of the ob. Putting the correct side on the white can eliminate this effect. This is what Dave Alciatore's video shows, although the effect with snooker equipment is nothing like as great as it is on a US-pool table.

[vmax4steve]

Well I went down the club tonight and tried Dr. Dave's shot and couldn't for the life of me get it to work. I was playing pinks off their spot with helping side one after the other no problem as I know exactly where to hit these shots, but when attempting doubles and looking for the side to transfer to the object ball to make it come back into the corner pocket as in that video it just doesn't work, and I can play with side and I know my cue very well and the amount of throw I get I was adjusting for, but zilch.

Sorry but I'm not a convert to transmitted side, doesn't happen enough to make any difference to the object ball. All I can see is the effect the deflection and arcing of the cue ball makes to the angle the cue ball comes into the object ball from to make the correct contact point from a slightly different position, thus adjusting the path the cue ball makes off the object ball.

And that my friends is what helping side is as far as I'm concerned.

[Ramon]

No, view helping side as a way to aid a tricky pot or a way to adjust the potting angle slightly to hold the cue ball. General side i see as something that's purely for positional purposes to alter the cue balls natural angle off a cushion.

Without a doubt, a great post!!!! + 10 to this.
Thx for rplay!!

[02aleric]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-zG55SW0I0

watch this video from 2.50 onwards

I've posted it before, but it shows for me, that on snooker table, without the object ball already being in contact with another ball or a cushion (which may slightly prolong the amount of time the two balls are in contact), any transmitted side is absolutely minimal or negligible.

if the object ball is touching a cushion or another ball, then i think a touch more spin can be transmitted. For example, set up this shot... put two reds, touching each other over any pocket, in a perfectly straight line. Then put the white a short distance away but again, in a perfectly straight line. Now, try to pot both reds in the same pocket in the same shot. For me, the only way to do this is to play the shot with screw, which transmits a tiny amount of topsin to the first red, allowing it to follow the other red in the pocket.

[cyberheater]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-zG55SW0I0

watch this video from 2.50 onwards

Yep. Zero side transmitted.

[ace man]

Well I went down the club tonight and tried Dr. Dave's shot and couldn't for the life of me get it to work.

Of course it didn't work, you tried it on a snooker table.
It does work on US pool table, I can confirm that having used that trick in actual game. However, even on American tables, if the cloth is brand new Simonis with fresh set of polished balls (think Mosconi Cup conditions), I very much doubt you could get THAT much of an effect as demonstrated in video.
Not sure why people use Dave's videos to demonstrate something...the difference in playing conditions between snooker and US pool is tremendous...enough to call it an entirely different sport. Those of us who dabble at both games can testify.

[cyberheater]

Of course it didn't work, you tried it on a snooker table.

The question was posted in 'snooker forums' -> 'coaching'.

At least we can all agree now that there is no transmitted side happening on a snooker table.

[jonny66]

At least we can all agree now

the eternal optimist

[ace man]

There is, but the amount is so small that it is almost negligible.
From a playing point of view...totally unusable on a snooker table.
Yes and no are both correct...

[cyberheater]

There is, but the amount is so small that it is almost negligible.
From a playing point of view...totally unusable on a snooker table.
Yes and no are both correct...

LOL. That's what you call keeping your options open

I think in a practical sense the answer for me would be no. I only put small amounts of side on relatively easy shots so I guess that it's not something I'm going to come up against.

[golferson123]

Helping side

the original point I was trying to make is the initial angle off the cue ball can be altered by use of side nothing to do with cushions ,there is a slight amount of friction between the two balls and the gear effect sends the ob one way or the other

[cyberheater]

the original point I was trying to make is the initial angle off the cue ball can be altered by use of side nothing to do with cushions ,there is a slight amount of friction between the two balls and the gear effect sends the ob one way or the other

Sorry. We got a bit side tracked here.

If it was possible to alter the angle of the cue ball using side then it would be possible to pot a straight blue into the blue bag and have the white move left or right depending on the side used. This doesn't happen. You can put a ton of side on and the white will still stay in a straight line between the two middle pockets.

[golferson123]

Helping side

not quite because at a slower pace you don't use full ball.if you set up a full ball contact and apply side the ob comes off less than full ball if you play say 7/8 ball and apply side the ob comes off full ball