Helping side

[mythman69]

At least we can all agree now that there is no transmitted side happening on a snooker table.

I was just reading some bits and pieces on englishBilliards.org and found this:

"Transmitted Side

A useful skill

Use of transmitted side is very useful in advanced Billiards. Most snooker players know what happens when a double is played with side, but Billiards players are generally hesitant about accepting transmitted side as a concept.

Effect on the shot

The side that is transmitted from the cue ball to the object ball is small, but has a big effect on the shot if the shot is played square-on to the cushion. However, for shots that are at acute angles to the cushion, transmitted side is almost irrelevant as the 'effect' is negligible. The extreme example of this is a shot along the cushion; in this case, transmitted side is of no use whatsoever as the object ball does not bounce off the cushion.

Practical example

A very good example of a Billiards shot that uses transmitted side is the loser from hand with the object ball close to the top cushion. In this case the result of the shot is markedly different, depending whether left or right side is used. One of the main reasons why this shot is so dependant on the side that is used on the cue ball is the fact that the object ball hits the cushion 'square on'. Therefore, the object ball path can be varied by side on the cue ball."

Source http://www.englishbilliards.org/transmittedSide

[cyberheater]

I was just reading some bits and pieces on englishBilliards.org and found this:

[I]"Transmitted Side

I don't see where the transmitting side is in that shot.

[mythman69]

I don't see where the transmitting side is in that shot.

on the object ball

[cyberheater]

on the object ball

LOL. I know that's where it's meant to be transmitted.

I just can't see how it helps with that shot even if it does happen.

[mythman69]

LOL. I know that's where it's meant to be transmitted.

I just can't see how it helps with that shot even if it does happen.

If it does happen, helping to change the position of the object ball for where you want it for the next shot would be very useful. Closer to the middle of the table or further towards the left or right of the table.

Controlling the object ball path

As this is a long distance shot, it is normally too risky to vary the contact. Playing with right side will make the object ball go further to the left and left side will make it go to the right, partly due to the throw of the object ball but mainly due to a small amount of transmitted side. This effect is very similar to that seen when doubling a ball in snooker. Therefore, side can be used effectively to position the object ball.

http://www.englishbilliards.org/lose...oTheTopCushion

[vmax4steve]

the original point I was trying to make is the initial angle off the cue ball can be altered by use of side nothing to do with cushions ,there is a slight amount of friction between the two balls and the gear effect sends the ob one way or the other

I think this effect has everything to do with the cue ball being deflected and arcing back into the object ball from a slightly different angle. It can happen over a short distance when played firmly and a greater distance when played slowly. The contact point on the object ball stays the same, you can't contact the object ball too thick or too thin and pot it due to transmitted side.

Now I know an object ball frozen to the cushion can pick up some side when struck at an angle with a non spinnig cue ball, but that is purely down to the longer contact between the two balls due to the cushion stopping the object ball from immediately bouncing away and therefore increasing friction between the two balls. In effect I suppose then that an object ball frozen to a cushion can be made to pot with transmitted side but then how does one know that it's not a slight double kiss that's also part of the scenario.

[golferson123]

I think this effect has everything to do with the cue ball being deflected and arcing back into the object ball from a slightly different angle. It can happen over a short distance when played firmly and a greater distance when played slowly. The contact point on the object ball stays the same, you can't contact the object ball too thick or too thin and pot it due to transmitted side.

Now I know an object ball frozen to the cushion can pick up some side when struck at an angle with a non spinnig cue ball, but that is purely down to the longer contact between the two balls due to the cushion stopping the object ball from immediately bouncing away and therefore increasing friction between the two balls. In effect I suppose then that an object ball frozen to a cushion can be made to pot with transmitted side but then how does one know that it's not a slight double kiss that's also part of the scenario.

this is gonna run and run you say potato i say patota

[Byrom]

this is gonna run and run you say potato i say patota

you say Patota???



LOL - sorry got to go to the choppy fer ma taa - gunna have some fizz n chops wi mussy eees

[tedisbill]

you say Patota???



LOL - sorry got to go to the choppy fer ma taa - gunna have some fizz n chops wi mussy eees

Hahahahaha! Absolutely brilliant!

[renniwevarb]

Let's look at it from another angle.

We leave the argument of transmitted side to the academics, and try to think of it from a player's point of view. The fact is this effect of "throw" on the object ball can be observed when "helping side" is used, no matter the reason how or why. Ultimate aim is to be aware of this and being able to use it in play.

The argument of slight swerve to alter the line that cueball is approaching object ball:

1) can be easily understood with the example of making a pot that isn't there. Like potting a red to end pocket at the black end of table with cueball slightly lower on red, when natural angle is not there due to another obstructing ball which only allows you to hit the intended red slightly thicker than the natural potting angle. Achievable using a trace of "helping side", i.e. right hand side when potting this red into the right top pocket, and vice-versa when into left top pocket. Using the explanation of "swerve" does help us to reconcile with this effect.

2) also works for doubles. My example would be using check side to make a double which would otherwise not be there due to the natural angle which would result in a double kiss. BUT...

3) is counter-intuitive when using it to "hold the cueball angle" by hitting the shot a bit thicker using helping side. Example, screwing back on a red say 6-8 inches in front of the black nearer to the pocket and slightly below and getting position on the black, when a natural screw shot will pot the red but cannon the black on the way back. "Helping side" allows you to achieve this, i.e. right hand side when potting this red into the top right pocket, you can make the pot by aiming slightly thicker than the natural potting angle, thus able to screw past the black without cannoning into it. Don't ask me why or how, the effect is just there.

Problem with the swerve explanation is that in order to hold the angle, the helping side that should be used is the opposite direction of spin, i.e. left instead of right hand side for my example in (3) above so the approaching line of the cueball is altered to hit the red thicker so it can screw back past the black. But the actual effect occurs the other way round. Go try it on the table.

Some call it "throw", some call it "transmitted side", it doesn't really matter to me (although I'm not for the transmitting school of thought). End result is we can use this effect to make some shots which naturally is not there.

Pardon me for the examples, hope my words are not confusing the whole picture. I've learnt the above from experience and sharing by other players, and also trying out the shots on the table. Still I stand corrected if I have given any wrong information.

[itsnoteasy]

Could someone explain this for me , helping side is ALWAYS running side isn't it?
If I am low on the black cutting it back into the green bottom pocket, then running side is lefthand side, so the White will arc right to left, but that's the wrong way to make it arc out then come back in , to do that would need right hand side which is check side, I'm a wee bit confused lol.

[Pedantic Stroke]

Could someone explain this for me , helping side is ALWAYS running side isn't it?
If I am low on the black cutting it back into the green bottom pocket, then running side is lefthand side, so the White will arc right to left, but that's the wrong way to make it arc out then come back in , to do that would need right hand side which is check side, I'm a wee bit confused lol.

Helping side is always on the side of the cut angle. If you are cutting to the right it is right hand side on the white and visa versa. I mean this as in helping side that eliminates cut induced throw on a shot. Running and check side simply refer to how the white will react off a cushion. On the majority of shots helping side will be running side if a cushion is contacted but it depends on what other spin you apply such as bottom or top as to whether the cue ball will run or check off a cushion.

If you watch some American pool on the money ball...or the last ball potted to win the match the pros seem to always apply helping side looking at how the white reacts off a cushion. They obviously know something a lot of amateurs don't and they do it purely to avoid heavy thick contacts and keep the potting angle truer if that makes sense?

[itsnoteasy]

Helping side is always on the side of the cut angle. If you are cutting to the right it is right hand side on the white and visa versa. I mean this as in helping side that eliminates cut induced throw on a shot. Running and check side simply refer to how the white will react off a cushion. On the majority of shots helping side will be running side if a cushion is contacted but it depends on what other spin you apply such as bottom or top as to whether the cue ball will run or check off a cushion

If you watch some American pool on the money ball...or the last ball potted to win the match the pros seem to always apply helping side looking at how the white reacts off a cushion. They obviously know something a lot of amateurs don't and they do it purely to avoid heavy thick contacts and keep the potting angle truer if that makes sense?

Ah ! Thank you, I thought I had read it was always running side, that's why I was a bit confused by it all.

[DandyA]

Helping side is always on the side of the cut angle. If you are cutting to the right it is right hand side on the white and visa versa. I mean this as in helping side that eliminates cut induced throw on a shot. Running and check side simply refer to how the white will react off a cushion. On the majority of shots helping side will be running side if a cushion is contacted but it depends on what other spin you apply such as bottom or top as to whether the cue ball will run or check off a cushion.

If you watch some American pool on the money ball...or the last ball potted to win the match the pros seem to always apply helping side looking at how the white reacts off a cushion. They obviously know something a lot of amateurs don't and they do it purely to avoid heavy thick contacts and keep the potting angle truer if that makes sense?

now I'm getting confused ... I think itsnoteasy was correct in his example above ... I call it "outside" side, the cue is on the other side of the cueball to the object ball ...

[itsnoteasy]

now I'm getting confused ... I think itsnoteasy was correct in his example above ... I call it "outside" side, the cue is on the other side of the cueball to the object ball ...

Oh no just to confuse things a bit more running side isn't always the outside of the cueball, say you are just high on the black and( potting it into the bottom green bag) following through round the angles ,running side would be the inside of the cue ball( or the side nearest the black) if you played top and the outside of the cueball that would be check side in that situation( as it would check off the cush) I hope I have that right.