Helping side

[golferson123]

the other one is karen corr i think, hardly dominating is it

[Terry Davidson]

the other one is karen corr i think, hardly dominating is it

I think Alison and Karen dominated Woman's pool for quite a little while in the US. I remember seeing somewhere that between them the ex-British women took all of the titles one season

Terry

[Ramon]

I think Alison and Karen dominated Woman's pool for quite a little while in the US. I remember seeing somewhere that between them the ex-British women took all of the titles one season

Terry

yes ,, great player !! But I don't understand why she stopped with snooker!! and went to play pool... Maybe because she could make more money in US by playing pool ???

[Pedantic Stroke]

What you don't take into account is that their videos are filmed in such a way that you don't really see how they're strking the cue ball, you don't really see what is being put on the cue ball, you don't really see what exactly is happening and you're taking at face value whatever they tell you is happening is fact..................................then they bring up the subject of low deflection cues and mention a brand name.

The good old US of A, the united states of advertising. You get nothing for free in the land of the free.

Another point I would like to make is how come those who learned their craft on an english billiard table have had such success over the pond playing US 9 ball, when the yanks have all these little secrets of side to bamboozle them.

I very much doubt they are posting these videos to market a shaft. The low deflection shafts they tend to ramble on about are utter crap, they just don't deflect the white that much. Feels like you're playing with your auntie Edna's mop handle. But, they obviously rate them enough to give them a shout out. I'm taking what they say to be fact because well, its just that...fact. Some of the stuff they go on about can lead to a headache when they provide evidence but generally they do a great job of simplifying the physics behind what they preach. On all? Dr Daves YouTube video demonstrations he provides a pop up white on screen with a red dot showing where he is hitting the cue ball. He will tell you what elevation he is trying to get the cue and what speed he is to hit the shot. He will tell you how he is applying the side whether it be BHE or FHE, a mixture or just getting down with the tip pointing where he wants.

As far as transfer of side is concerned - its fact that it happens. It amazes me how people can think it doesn't. Friction between the two balls...you don't have to have a Ph.D. in physics to understand it. Friction between the cloth can mean it can wear off pretty quickly on the object ball but it still happens. Next time someone's down the snooker hall just book an American table out for 10 mins. Try a couple of full table doubles with the object ball close to the cushion and white fairly close to the object ball. Hit it plain ball and see where it ends up. Set the shot up exactly the same and hit it the same speed but with screw, then with top spin then with right and left hand side. The final outcome of the object ball will differ massively. You can try it on a snooker table, it will work the same but because of the nature of the cushions they don't react to side as much as the American tables the difference wont be as great, but there will be a noticeable difference where the object ball finishes.

[rimmer10]

He will tell you how he is applying the side whether it be BHE or FHE, a mixture or just getting down with the tip pointing where he wants.

Could you expand on this please? I don't know what that means.

[Leo]

Could you expand on this please? I don't know what that means.

Back and front hand English

[rimmer10]

Back and front hand English

Thanks mate. Still not a 100% sure what that means though

[itsnoteasy]

Your not on your own Rimmer. I'm guessing it's just a way of saying left or right hand side.

[rimmer10]

Your not on your own Rimmer. I'm guessing it's just a way of saying left or right hand side.

That explains it mate

[Ethanat]

The video above is going to start a big debate on how to play a shot with side because there's alot of people who advocate playing parallel, not across.

[rimmer10]

The video above is going to start a big debate on how to play a shot with side because there's alot of people who advocate playing parallel, not across.

Might work for players like myself who can't play with side until it becomes 2nd nature to line up naturally. What it does do though is pointing out the importance of really knowing your cue, again something a player like myself doesn't really appreciate.

[itsnoteasy]

Cheers Rimmer, very interesting.

[vmax4steve]

I very much doubt they are posting these videos to market a shaft. The low deflection shafts they tend to ramble on about are utter crap, they just don't deflect the white that much. Feels like you're playing with your auntie Edna's mop handle. But, they obviously rate them enough to give them a shout out.

It doesn't matter if they're crap or not, the fact is these videos are made to market the bloody things and you're falling for it. Whether you buy one or not you're living in advert land where everyone is beautiful, the sun always shines and there are no traffic jams. That's the middle and both ends of what these people are doing; and an american table and balls shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the actual physics of transmitted side. There is a very slight bit of side transmitted to the object ball that can be picked up by a very high speed camera, but nowhere near enough to made any discernable difference to the direction the object ball will travel when contacted at a point that's either too thick or too thin to make the pot.

Any great friction between the two balls is easy to see and hear and is known as a kick, the rest of the time the highly polished surfaces of the two balls simply glide off each other whether one is loaded with side or not.

It's the deflection and arcing of the cue ball that gives the 'effect' of the object ball coming off at a different angle because the person making the shot doesn't realise what's actually happening and on a subconscious level has learned to compensate for the deflection and arcing but consciously thinks he has aimed the cue ball where he would when centre ball striking.

I have seen and know players who apply helping side to every shot they play but still make some great pots and play snooker to a very good degree, it's very real phenomenon, but I daren't tell them about it as to make them aware of it would probably destroy their game; one bloke I know has great trouble with straight shots as he doesn't know what side to put on a straight shot to make the pot. Sounds ridiculous but he's a fantastic potter until faced with a straight shot.

[golferson123]

vmax you have said all this before, some people dont agree with you, what do you want us to do just give in and say your right? cant you understand that some people have other ideas on whats occuring, and shaft deflection is a fact its not rocket science if players want a low deflection cue let them search for one it dont make them mugs

[Pedantic Stroke]

It doesn't matter if they're crap or not, the fact is these videos are made to market the bloody things and you're falling for it. Whether you buy one or not you're living in advert land where everyone is beautiful, the sun always shines and there are no traffic jams. That's the middle and both ends of what these people are doing; and an american table and balls shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the actual physics of transmitted side. There is a very slight bit of side transmitted to the object ball that can be picked up by a very high speed camera, but nowhere near enough to made any discernable difference to the direction the object ball will travel when contacted at a point that's either too thick or too thin to make the pot.

Any great friction between the two balls is easy to see and hear and is known as a kick, the rest of the time the highly polished surfaces of the two balls simply glide off each other whether one is loaded with side or not.

It's the deflection and arcing of the cue ball that gives the 'effect' of the object ball coming off at a different angle because the person making the shot doesn't realise what's actually happening and on a subconscious level has learned to compensate for the deflection and arcing but consciously thinks he has aimed the cue ball where he would when centre ball striking.

I have seen and know players who apply helping side to every shot they play but still make some great pots and play snooker to a very good degree, it's very real phenomenon, but I daren't tell them about it as to make them aware of it would probably destroy their game; one bloke I know has great trouble with straight shots as he doesn't know what side to put on a straight shot to make the pot. Sounds ridiculous but he's a fantastic potter until faced with a straight shot.

So what you are basically saying is spin induced throw (SIT) doesn't exist? When you play with right hand side it throws the object ball to the left slightly, not because of the arc of the cue ball swerving and making the potting angle different, but because the anti clockwise (from a birdseye view) spin the white has pushes the object ball to the left like two intertwined cogs if that makes it easier to envision. You can believe I'm lost in the land of advertisement and marketing all you want. Until you come out of the clutch of prehistoric reasoning and thinking everyone is out to flog you something then I'm quite happy to stay put. I assume you are a believer in cut induced throw (CIT)? You can't believe in CIT and not believe in SIT...they are basically the same thing at the end of the day.

I've also seen players who can pot like no tomorrow who always use helping side. They do this because they learned incorrectly. They have their eyes lined up slightly wrong when down so it looks like they're hitting centre ball but are actually hitting off centre but over time their brain gets used to it and adjusts how they align to a shot to make it. This may be why the guy you mention can't pot a straight in for toffee...he is playing with side but his eyes make it look to him like he is lined up straight through centre ball and that little bit of side he plays with makes the cue ball deflect...or maybe, just maybe SIT is throwing the object ball without him knowing *gasp*.

Take care buddy