Helping side

[vmax4steve]

vmax you have said all this before, some people dont agree with you, what do you want us to do just give in and say your right? cant you understand that some people have other ideas on whats occuring, and shaft deflection is a fact its not rocket science if players want a low deflection cue let them search for one it dont make them mugs

I didn't say that using a low deflection cue means you're a mug, I've said before many times that one simply needs to get used to the deflection caused by ones own cue when using side. A low deflection cue doesn't mean that you can aim at the correct contact point when using side and If a player can't cue straight then a low deflection cue will still deflect the cue ball off the line of aim, thus solving nothing.
I don't see a point to the things unless one starts out and learns the game with one.

[j6uk]

its all about the wood, don't believe the hype

[golferson123]

too true, I never said buy a "low deflection" cue I said get a cue with minimal throw old or new. cues with the least deflection all share certain traits and cue makers are not mugs they know this so they market low deflection cues as if they know some secret when in fact if the average player took some time to do a little research they could save themself a few bob

[rimmer10]

would it be fair to say that stiffer shafts throw more and whippier shafts throw less?

[golferson123]

would it be fair to say that stiffer shafts throw more and whippier shafts throw less?

no that's too simplistic shaft flex is very important but too whippy is as bad as too stiff

[rimmer10]

no that's too simplistic shaft flex is very important but too whippy is as bad as too stiff

Thanks mate

[Ramon]

would it be fair to say that stiffer shafts throw more and whippier shafts throw less?

rimmer10,,, Personally, I agree with reply of Golferson..
This info about stiff/whippy shaft. !!! comes from internet!! I'm not agree with some of the things mentioned in this statement, but is nice info to read (I thought maybe you are interested). Also I apologize (is kind of,off the topic ).

<<<<< As for a whippy shaft being better at applying spin, I think that this is an often repeated pool/snooker player's myth!
Most pool/snooker players have never seen a world class 3 cushion player spin the ball. Ask them if they would rather use a whippy or stiff shaft! I can assure you, they prefer a stiff shaft!
Spin is likely shaft stiffness neutral, as spin is determined by the tip offset, and the speed of the hit only. Cueball speed however, is affected by some other things, like cue weight, and possibly shaft stiffness. In theory, a very flexible shaft will lose some impact energy in the collision, which will result in a bit less cueball speed.
So shaft stiffness might effect the spin/speed ratio, but not the overall amount of spin.
For good draw, in theory it could be argued that a stiff shaft, losing a bit less energy (read cue ball speed) might be a bit better.
I also think that a flexible shaft, when absorbing some of the impact energy might "mask" some of the effort. This could give the impression of more spin with less effort. (an analogy would be punching a brick wall with your bare hand, and punching the same wall with a boxing glove. Both punches might involve the same force, but the bare hand will "feel" all the force, and the glove will mask it- not to mention the pain!).
In practice, shaft stiffness provides some feedback to the player (albeit after the ball has gone!).
So there is room for personal preference with regards to shaft stiffness.
So I think you can also adjust the stiffness for other reasons (feel, feedback, and perhaps closed bridge comfort?).>>>>>

[rimmer10]

rimmer10,,, Personally, I agree with reply of Golferson..
This info about stiff/whippy shaft. !!! comes from internet!! I'm not agree with some of the things mentioned in this statement, but is nice info to read (I thought maybe you are interested). Also I apologize (is kind of,off the topic ).

<<<<< As for a whippy shaft being better at applying spin, I think that this is an often repeated pool/snooker player's myth!
Most pool/snooker players have never seen a world class 3 cushion player spin the ball. Ask them if they would rather use a whippy or stiff shaft! I can assure you, they prefer a stiff shaft!
Spin is likely shaft stiffness neutral, as spin is determined by the tip offset, and the speed of the hit only. Cueball speed however, is affected by some other things, like cue weight, and possibly shaft stiffness. In theory, a very flexible shaft will lose some impact energy in the collision, which will result in a bit less cueball speed.
So shaft stiffness might effect the spin/speed ratio, but not the overall amount of spin.
For good draw, in theory it could be argued that a stiff shaft, losing a bit less energy (read cue ball speed) might be a bit better.
I also think that a flexible shaft, when absorbing some of the impact energy might "mask" some of the effort. This could give the impression of more spin with less effort. (an analogy would be punching a brick wall with your bare hand, and punching the same wall with a boxing glove. Both punches might involve the same force, but the bare hand will "feel" all the force, and the glove will mask it- not to mention the pain!).
In practice, shaft stiffness provides some feedback to the player (albeit after the ball has gone!).
So there is room for personal preference with regards to shaft stiffness.
So I think you can also adjust the stiffness for other reasons (feel, feedback, and perhaps closed bridge comfort?).>>>>>

Thanks Ramon. That was very interesting reading. Would be good to hear what the good players and the cue makers on here say to that.

[Byrom]

Interesting - but my take on this is different - might be wrong but I don't think deflection has much to do with the wood or the cue stiff or whippy.

I think it has more to do with the tip hardness and size - Smaller tips 9 - 9.2 9.3 mil just seem to help the cue deflect less than 9.5 - 10 mil in my opinion. My thinking on this is simply because they hit a smaller area on the white ball when using side - therefore you can apply bits of side and have less deflection - less is more if you get me?

[Pedantic Stroke]

Interesting - but my take on this is different - might be wrong but I don't think deflection has much to do with the wood or the cue stiff or whippy.

I think it has more to do with the tip hardness and size - Smaller tips 9 - 9.2 9.3 mil just seem to help the cue deflect less than 9.5 - 10 mil in my opinion. My thinking on this is simply because they hit a smaller area on the white ball when using side - therefore you can apply bits of side and have less deflection - less is more if you get me?

I see where you are coming from and understand your logic but I'd like to add a little on deflection.

A cues deflection is down to its end mass. Basically how heavy it is for the last several inches towards and including the tip. A smaller tip size and ferrule generally means less end mass due to it being smaller and weighing less, but sometimes a heavy ferrule and tip can make it deflect more. Also having 'more' tip on your cue makes a slight difference compared to a worn out shorter tip. Also the type of wood used makes a difference. Heavier woods deflect more than lighter woods. Companies such as Predator and OB Cues hollow out the last few inches of a shaft and fill it with some sort of foam I believe to make the end mass as minimal as possible without compromising the shafts structure too much. Add this in with the super light plastic ferrules and smaller than average tip sizes (11.75mm for both companies lowest deflecting shafts compared to the standard of 13mm in American pool) and they produce shafts that newcomers swear by. They do deflect only minimal amounts, but in the grand scheme of things its not important how much a shaft or cue deflects. They feel dead to play with if that makes sense. I'd offer this piece of advice to any newcomer...once you get hooked and reach a decent level of play, bite the bullet and splash out on a quality hand made cue and cherish it and use it for the rest of your life. You soon get used to how cue plays even if it deflect a lot.

As for whippyness...it makes no difference to cue ball deflection.

As for tip size and the cue ball contact area...again the size of the tip makes no difference nor does the hardness of a tip unless one is like paper mashe(sp?) and the other is like concrete. The roundness of your tip is what makes the difference in contact area. You have a 13mm tip and a 9mm tip both curved like a 10p coin the contact patch on a snooker white ball will be the same. It goes against what people naturally believe to be true but when you really think about it it sort of makes sense.

[Leo]

Been struggling to get to sleep lately until i came across this thread, cheers lads this really helped last night

[golferson123]

Helping side

give us a clue leo what floats your boat?

[golferson123]

Helping side

of course shaft flex effects throw the right flex detemines how much spin is on the ball ie no spin more throw good spin more recovery

[Pedantic Stroke]

of course shaft flex effects throw the right flex detemines how much spin is on the ball ie no spin more throw good spin more recovery

The tip is in contact with the white for less than half a second, in this time the shaft has very little time to bend or flex, this is all done way after the white has left the tip. The amount of spin the white has is down to the speed you hit it, where you hit it and how well you time the shot. Certain tips can help provide a little, not much, more spin than others but the flex of a shaft has nothing to do with it. I can generate just as much spin with a whippy shaft than I do with a stiff cue.

[j6uk]

The tip is in contact with the white for less than half a second, in this time the shaft has very little time to bend or flex, this is all done way after the white has left the tip. The amount of spin the white has is down to the speed you hit it, where you hit it and how well you time the shot. Certain tips can help provide a little, not much, more spin than others but the flex of a shaft has nothing to do with it. I can generate just as much spin with a whippy shaft than I do with a stiff cue.

your saying the resonance of the shaft has nothing to do with how the actual cue performs and the reaction you get from the cue ball?