Helping side

[golferson123]

Helping side

its not a new thing either respliced many an old cue and found its been dowelled under the splices.did point out a while ago that on the r/o show at parris workshop that his cue blanks had centre marks in the tip ends so they could have been in a machine at some point

[j6uk]

i hear you vmax, yeah i don't think though that the length of the shaft has much to do with these dead hitting cues that are coming from the east. iv almost always used machine spliced cues, and its the same in terms of you get good and bad. same as the grains, some wild patters can make very responsive. iv tried reviving some with my no5 that i thought should be playing well. they did play better with some tidying up and taper changes but still felt just that bit too dull to really be called a good cue

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I very much doubt they are posting these videos to market a shaft. The low deflection shafts they tend to ramble on about are utter crap, they just don't deflect the white that much. Feels like you're playing with your auntie Edna's mop handle. But, they obviously rate them enough to give them a shout out.

It doesn't matter if they're crap or not, the fact is these videos are made to market the bloody things and you're falling for it. Whether you buy one or not you're living in advert land where everyone is beautiful, the sun always shines and there are no traffic jams. That's the middle and both ends of what these people are doing; and an american table and balls shouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the actual physics of transmitted side. There is a very slight bit of side transmitted to the object ball that can be picked up by a very high speed camera, but nowhere near enough to made any discernable difference to the direction the object ball will travel when contacted at a point that's either too thick or too thin to make the pot.

Any great friction between the two balls is easy to see and hear and is known as a kick, the rest of the time the highly polished surfaces of the two balls simply glide off each other whether one is loaded with side or not.

It's the deflection and arcing of the cue ball that gives the 'effect' of the object ball coming off at a different angle because the person making the shot doesn't realise what's actually happening and on a subconscious level has learned to compensateo for the deflection and arcing but consciously thinks he has aimed the cue ball where he would when centre ball striking.

I have seen and know players who apply helping side to every shot they play but still make some great pots and play snooker to a very good degree, it's very real phenomenon, but I daren't tell them about it as to make them aware of it would probably destroy their game; one bloke I know has great trouble with straight shots as he doesn't know what side to put on a straight shot to make the pot. Sounds ridiculous but he's a fantastic potter until faced with a straight shot.

Dr dave et al are NOTHING to do with marketing low deflection shafts, nor do they recommend them, even. They point out their pros and cons and leave it up to the individual to decide. I play with an LD shaft because the game is impossible without one, especially if you come from a snooker/english pool background. Virtually every 9 ball player in the uk plays with an LD shaft, and for good reason. American pool is NOT snooker, and you can forget all about this 'just get used to the cue you have BS'. Deflection is an absolute pig to conquer.

Anyone who does not understand throw on any level, such as yourself, would benefit from watching dr Dave's videos and playing the game occasionally before commenting on things they know nothing about.

You need to play american pool to understand these issues. Your posts on this subject are as disrespectful as they are entirely ignorant.

[itsnoteasy]

Would you say it's a much bigger problem(if that's the right expression) in nine ball than snooker MrBigShot? And if so why, cloths, ball size or weight, or something else?

[j6uk]

i come from a bar billiard background, then got good at snooks and pool. played a lot of 9/8ball, and i rate myself at that too. i don't use a break cue and normally soft break, don't jump or use much rotation, got more of a stun game. oh and i don't have my own cue. whenever i play id use a house cue, and id go through most of them to find the one with the right ring to it, the best resonance.. its about the wood

[ace man]

Not sure why any half decent player would have problems with deflection. Maybe only if he abuses side spin, but then he is not very good at all, or is he?
Trouble with regular club house cues is that each is different and probably damaged a bit due to abuse from casual players. They are mostly not clean, sticky and have not had any maintenance done in years. I can play with them fine too for laugh, but would not use something like that for serious games, like a tournament for example.
My background is nine ball and for that I have used a Predator cue with a Z2 shaft for years. Not because it is low deflection, I do not care about that very much, but because I really like thinner cues. Many players do not like it, even those low deflection shaft users; because it is a bit on a thinner side (9b criteria) with its 11.75mm diameter.
One more advantage of low deflection shafts is that they are mass produced world wide and easily replaceable within days should something happen to them. Ferrule cracked on mine, got new one under warranty very quickly.

[j6uk]

won many tournaments and beat lots of very nice players on the way with cues from the rack. some didn't shake my hand after.. id find the cue, damp cloth it, light sand, rough up the tip and buff. ready for action. its the only way i know

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Would you say it's a much bigger problem(if that's the right expression) in nine ball than snooker MrBigShot? And if so why, cloths, ball size or weight, or something else?

What is? Throw is much greater in american pool because of the size/weight of the balls. They are big ole rocks and you can impart tremendous amounts of spin on them. The cloth as has an impact, as does the condition of the balls. Championship conditions will see little throw, your old, crap rileys will see loads of throw. Incidentally, ALL shots throw, whatever the table or condition of balls, just some are less obvious than others.

Anyone who hasn't played a lot of 9 ball is in for a shock when it comes to understanding how the balls react with side.

Ditto for deflection. American cues deflect like crazy - again, you have to play a lot of 9 ball to appreciate just how difficult this is to read. Very few snooker/english pool players will realise this. A solid maple high deflecting cue is going to leave you whimpering in a corner very quickly. It can take years to learn how to play all shots with one.

The cause of deflection is end mass, as has been stated. In essence, the smaller the mass at the tip, the lower the deflection. Imagine playing with a broomstick and then a needle. Using side with both, if that were poasible, would produce very different outcomes in terms of deflection. The broomstick, because it's heavy, will go through the ball in a straight line, meaning the CB will squirt off to the side. The needle, because it is light, will deflect out of the way CB, resulting in very little squirt.

This is not a perfect analogy but is broadly useable. The bigger the tip size, the bigger the deflection.

[itsnoteasy]

Thanks for the explanation, I have never played nine ball, but I can understand what you are saying.

[vmax4steve]

Ditto for deflection. American cues deflect like crazy - again, you have to play a lot of 9 ball to appreciate just how difficult this is to read. Very few snooker/english pool players will realise this. A solid maple high deflecting cue is going to leave you whimpering in a corner very quickly. It can take years to learn how to play all shots with one.

What a load of old bollocks. I played pool for ten years before taking up snooker, learned on the old Alco tables with big balls and the larger cue ball and tight pockets too, played with side no trouble at all using a centre jointed two piece ramin cue from a Kays catalogue. Those american nine ball tables with their five inch wide pockets are easy as hell to pot balls on, christ sakes the cue ball can deflect half an inch and you will still make the pot when close to an open pocket.

The fact that Dr. bloody Dave even mentions these low deflection cues is a sure sign he's marketing them and taking a cut for it.

[j6uk]

What is? Throw is much greater in american pool because of the size/weight of the balls. They are big ole rocks and you can impart tremendous amounts of spin on them. The cloth as has an impact, as does the condition of the balls. Championship conditions will see little throw, your old, crap rileys will see loads of throw. Incidentally, ALL shots throw, whatever the table or condition of balls, just some are less obvious than others.

Anyone who hasn't played a lot of 9 ball is in for a shock when it comes to understanding how the balls react with side.

Ditto for deflection. American cues deflect like crazy - again, you have to play a lot of 9 ball to appreciate just how difficult this is to read. Very few snooker/english pool players will realise this. A solid maple high deflecting cue is going to leave you whimpering in a corner very quickly. It can take years to learn how to play all shots with one.

The cause of deflection is end mass, as has been stated. In essence, the smaller the mass at the tip, the lower the deflection. Imagine playing with a broomstick and then a needle. Using side with both, if that were poasible, would produce very different outcomes in terms of deflection. The broomstick, because it's heavy, will go through the ball in a straight line, meaning the CB will squirt off to the side. The needle, because it is light, will deflect out of the way CB, resulting in very little squirt.

This is not a perfect analogy but is broadly useable. The bigger the tip size, the bigger the deflection.

eer no, please can you tell us what you mean by throw? oh and are you from the states and what are you selling?

[mythman69]

eer no, please can you tell us what you mean by throw? oh and are you from the states and what are you selling?

Hang on, let me get my popcorn

[Pedantic Stroke]

Anyone who is in doubt about deflection just add a few clothes pegs to just below the ferrule and try playing with side. The cue you've used all your life will start deflecting more and it will be like you've never used that cue before.

As for throw and spin induced throw...ive got an old set of American pool balls that I used on my table when I first got it. They're a few years old, battered and sticky from when my nephew would come around and play with them. They throw a hell of a lot. Because they are a bit sticky they cling to each other a fraction more than normal. This over exaggerates throw, but it opens peoples eyes. Shots start being hit thick. Spin on the white is hard to judge. Potting with side is even harder to judge.

When you hear great players past and present talking about spinning a ball in when you cant quite see the plain ball potting angle surely is enough proof that it happen. You don't need to understand the underlying physics behind it, you just need to understand that playing with right throws the object ball to the left and with left throws the ball to the right.

[Byrom]

This is true - might make you laugh but I have only ever played one game of American 9 ball and one shot - I broke off hard as I could - potted the yellow stripy ball and a few others and put the cue down never played it again - boring.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Ditto for deflection. American cues deflect like crazy - again, you have to play a lot of 9 ball to appreciate just how difficult this is to read. Very few snooker/english pool players will realise this. A solid maple high deflecting cue is going to leave you whimpering in a corner very quickly. It can take years to learn how to play all shots with one.

What a load of old bollocks. I played pool for ten years before taking up snooker, learned on the old Alco tables with big balls and the larger cue ball and tight pockets too, played with side no trouble at all using a centre jointed two piece ramin cue from a Kays catalogue. Those american nine ball tables with their five inch wide pockets are easy as hell to pot balls on, christ sakes the cue ball can deflect half an inch and you will still make the pot when close to an open pocket.

The fact that Dr. bloody Dave even mentions these low deflection cues is a sure sign he's marketing them and taking a cut for it.

Lol. Keep making a fool of yourself, it's entertaining.

And 0.5"? Ramin? Kays? LOL!!