Helping side

[vmax4steve]

Not a myth, just personal preference. There are pool pros who advocate using TOI (touch of inside) on every shot. One of the arguments for using either helping side or TOI is it's very difficult to find the centre of the CB on every shot, so you can compensate for this by specifically aiming a little away from centre.

So it's very difficult to find the centre of the cue ball on every shot but easier to strike just a little off centre every time. More bollocks from Mr. Big Shot trying to make 9 ball more difficult than it is. He's right about the two games though, there's a world of difference between the two, major difference is that 9 ball is p1ss easy by comparison as the tables are smaller and the pockets are five inches wide.
You see these american players with upright stances and with their ultra long wobbly bridges knocking balls in that hit the cushion a foot from the pocket and it's all to do with a touch of side, striking a little off centre every time to help the pot.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Not a myth, just personal preference. There are pool pros who advocate using TOI (touch of inside) on every shot. One of the arguments for using either helping side or TOI is it's very difficult to find the centre of the CB on every shot, so you can compensate for this by specifically aiming a little away from centre.

So it's very difficult to find the centre of the cue ball on every shot but easier to strike just a little off centre every time. More bollocks from Mr. Big Shot trying to make 9 ball more difficult than it is. He's right about the two games though, there's a world of difference between the two, major difference is that 9 ball is p1ss easy by comparison as the tables are smaller and the pockets are five inches wide.
You see these american players with upright stances and with their ultra long wobbly bridges knocking balls in that hit the cushion a foot from the pocket and it's all to do with a touch of side, striking a little off centre every time to help the pot.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

I'm not saying i agree with it, just it is a technique some find helpful. I play with helping side through habit but would not even consider TOI.

As for 9 ball, it is deceptive, and nowhere near as easy as many snooker players think. Unlike throw, this is subjective, so I'm not going to argue with you if you think it's too easy for you.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Not a myth, just personal preference. There are pool pros who advocate using TOI (touch of inside) on every shot. One of the arguments for using either helping side or TOI is it's very difficult to find the centre of the CB on every shot, so you can compensate for this by specifically aiming a little away from centre.

At pro levels, those that have truly mastered centre ball are the best players. Consistently hitting the centre of the CB is the most difficult skill in cuesports IMO.

Good post !!! Btw , Is Not only your opinion. according Chris Henry: majority of players who think they hit the center of the CB every time ( consistent ),, , are wrong. They do'nt !!!!! I'am agree with him 100 pct !!!!!

Consistency is key. It doesn't really matter if you dont hit centre ball every time as long as you hit the same part of the CB every time. Your eyes and brain will adapt and you'll still hit the OB as intended.

[j6uk]

Good post !!! Btw , Is Not only your opinion. according Chris Henry: majority of players who think they hit the center of the CB every time ( consistent ),, , are wrong. They do'nt !!!!! I'am agree with him 100 pct !!!!!

and this is the same chris that said ron is a cue ball player and looks at it on the moment of strike, this guys just playing with your noodles

[Terry Davidson]

Terry, I'm sure I don't have to explain this! you know this much better than me!! useing side is not same as useing helping side!! These two are not same!! J6 made a good observation!! No one says that you should use that every time!! use it, if you need it!!! Let me ask you what. are u saying, that a player who makes 147 break, is actually able to combine all those red balls with black and keep the CB in good position every time, without useing helping side??
Is this what u re saying ??

Yes

I use side in my game but not a lot of it, just as j6 says. 'Helping side' to have the cueball get to a different position is a myth. Pros will cheat the pocket when faced with that situation, not helping side. I'll bet you've even heard the commentators say 'he cheated the pocket to get his required position'.

Of course, sometimes this goes the other way and a pro will play the cueball for position and miss the pot. I've seen that happen quite frequently and have also 'been there, done that'.

Find me a comment regarding the use of helping side from any really great player and I'll think about it, but in the meantime try this test (if you have the patience).

Place blue ball on spot, over middle pocket line up 3 reds across the pocket, move the outside 2 reds about 1/16" away from the centre red and then remove the centre red. Set cueball up on blue for a 3/4-ball shot to the middle between those 2 reds (the reds are there to ensure you don't cheat the pocket.

Now pot the blue using centre-ball, left and right-hand side at just enough pace that the side is still on the cueball when you pot. Now mark or put a red where the cueball ends up. (this will be very frustrating as potting the blue on exactly the same line to centre-pocket with only a small clearance is VERY tough, but it can be done.)

I've seen this demonstrated by Nic Barrow while I spotted the balls for him. Many, many attempt just to pot the blue perfectly but in the end the cueball lines after leaving the blue ball and traveling a distance of about 4ft all ended up within less than 1" displacement. Conclusion...helping side or using side on a pot where a cushion is not involved doesn't do anything at all and is counter productive.

If you try this experiment and get a different result let me know. I would bet that you cannot get a different path from the cueball or at least a difference that would make a positional shot better.

Terry

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Do people use helping side for positional purposes? I use it because it feels more natural for certain shots, especially long shots that are just off straight.

[j6uk]

we say turn it in or turn it over, steering the ob into the pocket. but using it on a slick cloth can make you look silly if your not use to those conditions

[j6uk]

most common area for turning balls in is in and around the pink

[luke-h]

I'm not saying i agree with it, just it is a technique some find helpful. I play with helping side through habit but would not even consider TOI.

As for 9 ball, it is deceptive, and nowhere near as easy as many snooker players think. Unlike throw, this is subjective, so I'm not going to argue with you if you think it's too easy for you.

I have to disagree snooker is by far harder than 9 ball on every level, i can play 9 ball and pot most balls left handed and even take the **** and close my eyes.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I'm not saying i agree with it, just it is a technique some find helpful. I play with helping side through habit but would not even consider TOI.

As for 9 ball, it is deceptive, and nowhere near as easy as many snooker players think. Unlike throw, this is subjective, so I'm not going to argue with you if you think it's too easy for you.

I have to disagree snooker is by far harder than 9 ball on every level, i can play 9 ball and pot most balls left handed and even take the **** and close my eyes.

GB9 has a few spaces left - sounds like you could make some easy money.

[itsnoteasy]

Yes

I use side in my game but not a lot of it, just as j6 says. 'Helping side' to have the cueball get to a different position is a myth. Pros will cheat the pocket when faced with that situation, not helping side. I'll bet you've even heard the commentators say 'he cheated the pocket to get his required position'.

Of course, sometimes this goes the other way and a pro will play the cueball for position and miss the pot. I've seen that happen quite frequently and have also 'been there, done that'.

Find me a comment regarding the use of helping side from any really great player and I'll think about it, but in the meantime try this test (if you have the patience).

Place blue ball on spot, over middle pocket line up 3 reds across the pocket, move the outside 2 reds about 1/16" away from the centre red and then remove the centre red. Set cueball up on blue for a 3/4-ball shot to the middle between those 2 reds (the reds are there to ensure you don't cheat the pocket.

Now pot the blue using centre-ball, left and right-hand side at just enough pace that the side is still on the cueball when you pot. Now mark or put a red where the cueball ends up. (this will be very frustrating as potting the blue on exactly the same line to centre-pocket with only a small clearance is VERY tough, but it can be done.)

I've seen this demonstrated by Nic Barrow while I spotted the balls for him. Many, many attempt just to pot the blue perfectly but in the end the cueball lines after leaving the blue ball and traveling a distance of about 4ft all ended up within less than 1" displacement. Conclusion...helping side or using side on a pot where a cushion is not involved doesn't do anything at all and is counter productive.

If you try this experiment and get a different result let me know. I would bet that you cannot get a different path from the cueball or at least a difference that would make a positional shot better.

Terry

im not sure what you have written there is what it's used for Terry, from what was on JKs video it's not used so much to get the cueball in a diferent position but more to take some energy out of the cueball after contact. The example he showed was a lowish cut black into the bottom bag (with a red up above it) he said with the natural angle he couldn't hold the White for the red as there was not enough energy taken out of the cue ball from the the shot, but if he aimed a bit thicker and played helping side the side would " throw" the black In to the pocket, and of course the thicker contact would alow him to hold for the red. I would suggest the experiment Nic should have done was potting the blue but with slightly thicker contacts ,from the same spot ,using varying amounts of side and pace and see if he could " throw " it in. If you get ten mins try it on your own table and let us know, might be a load of old tosh, but I'm surprised Willie Thorn never spoke of it to you considering he uses it all the time, and I'm not too sure if I have heard him talk about it on the telly at some point

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Yes

I use side in my game but not a lot of it, just as j6 says. 'Helping side' to have the cueball get to a different position is a myth. Pros will cheat the pocket when faced with that situation, not helping side. I'll bet you've even heard the commentators say 'he cheated the pocket to get his required position'.

Of course, sometimes this goes the other way and a pro will play the cueball for position and miss the pot. I've seen that happen quite frequently and have also 'been there, done that'.

Find me a comment regarding the use of helping side from any really great player and I'll think about it, but in the meantime try this test (if you have the patience).

Place blue ball on spot, over middle pocket line up 3 reds across the pocket, move the outside 2 reds about 1/16" away from the centre red and then remove the centre red. Set cueball up on blue for a 3/4-ball shot to the middle between those 2 reds (the reds are there to ensure you don't cheat the pocket.

Now pot the blue using centre-ball, left and right-hand side at just enough pace that the side is still on the cueball when you pot. Now mark or put a red where the cueball ends up. (this will be very frustrating as potting the blue on exactly the same line to centre-pocket with only a small clearance is VERY tough, but it can be done.)

I've seen this demonstrated by Nic Barrow while I spotted the balls for him. Many, many attempt just to pot the blue perfectly but in the end the cueball lines after leaving the blue ball and traveling a distance of about 4ft all ended up within less than 1" displacement. Conclusion...helping side or using side on a pot where a cushion is not involved doesn't do anything at all and is counter productive.

If you try this experiment and get a different result let me know. I would bet that you cannot get a different path from the cueball or at least a difference that would make a positional shot better.

Terry

im not sure what you have written there is what it's used for Terry, from what was on JKs video it's not used so much to get the cueball in a diferent position but more to take some energy out of the cueball after contact. The example he showed was a lowish cut black into the bottom bag (with a red up above it) he said with the natural angle he couldn't hold the White for the red as there was not enough energy taken out of the cue ball from the the shot, but if he aimed a bit thicker and played helping side the side would " throw" the black In to the pocket, and of course the thicker contact would alow him to hold for the red. I would suggest the experiment Nic should have done was potting the blue but with slightly thicker contacts ,from the same spot ,using varying amounts of side and pace and see if he could " throw " it in. If you get ten mins try it on your own table and let us know, might be a load of old tosh, but I'm surprised Willie Thorn never spoke of it to you considering he uses it all the time, and I'm not too sure if I have heard him talk about it on the telly at some point

The great WT often talks about using side to 'turn the red over' when a player has to 'make the potting angle', such as when a ball isn't quite pottable. This is both swerve (before contact) AND throw (following contact).

Snooker could certainly do with having some more solid terminology. This would eliminate much of the confusion around here.

[DeanH]

Snooker could certainly do with having some more solid terminology. This would eliminate much of the confusion around here.

really? - can we start with the terminology of US pool !

side in snooker - english in US Pool - when the player is going to hit the cue ball to the "side" of the centre vertical - no confusion there in the snooker terminology :biggrin:


to help all, a nice little site
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossar...e_sports_terms

[Ramon]

and this is the same chris that said ron is a cue ball player and looks at it on the moment of strike, this guys just playing with your noodles

haha ,, good point !! to be honest, I usually do not agree with him !!! Well with this one !!!! ! but I was kind of hoping you give your opinion about this matter! Instead about C Henry !! I mean, are you not agree? do you think that any player can hit the center of CB (consistently?). Btw ,, Nice to have you back here !!!

[Ramon]

Yes

I use side in my game but not a lot of it, just as j6 says. 'Helping side' to have the cueball get to a different position is a myth. Pros will cheat the pocket when faced with that situation, not helping side. I'll bet you've even heard the commentators say 'he cheated the pocket to get his required position'.

Of course, sometimes this goes the other way and a pro will play the cueball for position and miss the pot. I've seen that happen quite frequently and have also 'been there, done that'.

Find me a comment regarding the use of helping side from any really great player and I'll think about it, but in the meantime try this test (if you have the patience).

Place blue ball on spot, over middle pocket line up 3 reds across the pocket, move the outside 2 reds about 1/16" away from the centre red and then remove the centre red. Set cueball up on blue for a 3/4-ball shot to the middle between those 2 reds (the reds are there to ensure you don't cheat the pocket.

Now pot the blue using centre-ball, left and right-hand side at just enough pace that the side is still on the cueball when you pot. Now mark or put a red where the cueball ends up. (this will be very frustrating as potting the blue on exactly the same line to centre-pocket with only a small clearance is VERY tough, but it can be done.)

I've seen this demonstrated by Nic Barrow while I spotted the balls for him. Many, many attempt just to pot the blue perfectly but in the end the cueball lines after leaving the blue ball and traveling a distance of about 4ft all ended up within less than 1" displacement. Conclusion...helping side or using side on a pot where a cushion is not involved doesn't do anything at all and is counter productive.

If you try this experiment and get a different result let me know. I would bet that you cannot get a different path from the cueball or at least a difference that would make a positional shot better.

Terry

Well, in this case, he must be a very good player! thanks for your opinion on this Terry !! Btw,, I can show you a practice routine and prove that useing helping Side is necessary. but then we go Off The topic here !! perhaps in a new thread or by PM. Many thanks for rplay !!!