4 point contact (Grip,chest,chin,bridge)

[OmaMiesta]

Hey guys, wanted to hear some opinions on the 4 point contact rule. How tight do you guys usually keep your cue to the chest when stroking and how tight/loose do you keep your grips as Ive heard many different takes on this. Also if you use a dominant eye, do you guys usually keep the cue centre chin and just turn your head so your eye is over or do you prefer to shift the cue directly under the eye?

[RoryM147]

I try to keep my cue firm against my chest to try help keep cue action straight. My grip is generally more loose than it is tight as I get a better feel of the shot. If I need more power I tend to grip it firmly. I'm not sure if I have a dominant eye as I haven't really tested it yet. Recently I tried switching the cue under my left eye to simply see what would happen and try something different and tbh I don't think it made much of a difference I think it was just more of a conscious thing that made me pot a small percentage more. I like the cue middle or under my right eye as I am right handed and it feels more natural. I'm still very much learning what would be more comfortable for me it's just a case of trial and error over until it feels natural and you don't need to think about it.

[Terry Davidson]

Contact with the chest but not pulled tight up against it. Much better to get the chest to the cue rather than the cue to the chest and the cue should be only 1" or less above the cushion. Loose grip is much better than hard but even the loose grip should be reasonably firm. The secret of the grip is actually that it shouldn't change configuration until well after the strike and right around the time the back of the thumb hits the chest.

Forget about dominant eye since you've been playing cue sports awhile now and have developed your own natural set-up and to alter things now to favour the dominant eye would not be very smart and would cost you. Go with what you've developed naturally even if you've read somewhere the cue should be under the dominant eye but you don't have that 'ideal' textbook alignment between cue and eyes.

I believe it was the University of Ohio who did a scientific study on dominant eye and sighting in ball sports. They discovered 70% of right-handed men are right eye dominant however when they looked at baseball for an example they discovered ALL the right-handed men were sighting with their left eye because of the set-up required for baseball. This didn't change unless they were switch-hitters.

The conclusion was as long as the visual acuity is good out of the non-dominant eye it can be easily trained to sight correctly and the more important thing was the physical set-up and 'muscle memory'.

Terry

[CjGibson147]

I like to keep my cue in the middle of my chin as I found putting it to the side a distraction. For my grip I have a happy medium between tight and loose, however it is tighter on power shots. I don't like to have my cue touching my chest since I always thought it was uncomfortable and I feel like I get more freedom and fluidity on the shot. I would say it is a couple of inches from my chest and I haven't had any problems with it not going straight.

[chessking]

They discovered 70% of right-handed men are right eye dominant however when they looked at baseball for an example they discovered ALL the right-handed men were sighting with their left eye because of the set-up required for baseball. This didn't change unless they were switch-hitters.


Terry

True, with the one exception I know of being Andres Galarraga, who batted right handed, but would stand at the plate with and extremely open stance, almost facing the pitcher straight on, and then close up the stance as the pitch was delivered. He claimed that this allowed his right dominant eye to see the pitch better.

[pottr]

True, with the one exception I know of being Andres Galarraga

Braves should have kept him on...

[chessking]

Braves should have kept him on...

And the Rockies before that.

[OmaMiesta]

Contact with the chest but not pulled tight up against it. Much better to get the chest to the cue rather than the cue to the chest and the cue should be only 1" or less above the cushion. Loose grip is much better than hard but even the loose grip should be reasonably firm. The secret of the grip is actually that it shouldn't change configuration until well after the strike and right around the time the back of the thumb hits the chest.

Forget about dominant eye since you've been playing cue sports awhile now and have developed your own natural set-up and to alter things now to favour the dominant eye would not be very smart and would cost you. Go with what you've developed naturally even if you've read somewhere the cue should be under the dominant eye but you don't have that 'ideal' textbook alignment between cue and eyes.

I believe it was the University of Ohio who did a scientific study on dominant eye and sighting in ball sports. They discovered 70% of right-handed men are right eye dominant however when they looked at baseball for an example they discovered ALL the right-handed men were sighting with their left eye because of the set-up required for baseball. This didn't change unless they were switch-hitters.

The conclusion was as long as the visual acuity is good out of the non-dominant eye it can be easily trained to sight correctly and the more important thing was the physical set-up and 'muscle memory'.

Terry

Hmm one question I have regarding the grip, is it constantly supposed to be closed as you feather the strokes or do you open slightly on the backswing? I know your suppose to loosen the grip slightly but do you actually physically open the grip hand a bit or keep it closed while loosening if that makes sense?

[guernseygooner]

Hmm one question I have regarding the grip, is it constantly supposed to be closed as you feather the strokes or do you open slightly on the backswing? I know your suppose to loosen the grip slightly but do you actually physically open the grip hand a bit or keep it closed while loosening if that makes sense?

Shouldn't be thinking about it. It will happen naturally

[dave121260]

Some1 uploaded a video of Shaun Murphy making a maximum and shows his grip great little video will try and find it.


Found it

http://youtu.be/B5-IX37pyGo

[guernseygooner]

Some1 uploaded a video of Shaun Murphy making a maximum and shows his grip great little video will try and find it.


Found it

http://youtu.be/B5-IX37pyGo

Yes good clip of the hand naturally opening and closing. A further point to the OP regarding chest contact. Shaun Murphy isn't a chest contact player and there are plenty others. I wouldn't stress about it if you don't do it now - body shapes/sizes can determine this.

[OmaMiesta]

Some1 uploaded a video of Shaun Murphy making a maximum and shows his grip great little video will try and find it.


Found it

http://youtu.be/B5-IX37pyGo

Ah that video is perfect, thanks for the link! Deff answered my question, its clear Shaun keeps his grip hand closed at all times while slightly loosening the grip on the backswing.

[Terry Davidson]

Ah that video is perfect, thanks for the link! Deff answered my question, its clear Shaun keeps his grip hand closed at all times while slightly loosening the grip on the backswing.

Actually he keeps the back 3 fingers loose on the backswing and the butt of the cue will push them out of the way but they never lose contact with the butt of the cue. Hendry in his prime used to take the back 3 fingers right off the cue and pointed out to the side at the end of his backswing. This prevents tightening the back of the grip hand before the strike which keeps the wrist joint stable.

Terry

[OmaMiesta]

Actually he keeps the back 3 fingers loose on the backswing and the butt of the cue will push them out of the way but they never lose contact with the butt of the cue. Hendry in his prime used to take the back 3 fingers right off the cue and pointed out to the side at the end of his backswing. This prevents tightening the back of the grip hand before the strike which keeps the wrist joint stable.

Terry

Yep, thats what I mean he doesnt open the grip completely (remove fingers). And as for Hendrys grip, I used to do that as well which is why I was wondering what the correct way was or if there even is one?

[Terry Davidson]

Yep, thats what I mean he doesnt open the grip completely (remove fingers). And as for Hendrys grip, I used to do that as well which is why I was wondering what the correct way was or if there even is one?

There is an 'ideal' grip taught by most coaches which is you hold the cue with the top inside of the forefinger and thumb (not applying any pressure) with the back 3 fingers quite loose. As you backswing the hold on the cue remains with the thumb and forefinger especially at the end of the backswing and then without tightening that hold you start the delivery, still holding the cue the same until well after the strike when the back 3 fingers re-grip the cue. This happens when the back of the thumb strikes the chest. This gives you what's called the 'snap' and allows faster acceleration through the cueball.

However, each player should experiment and find the ideal grip for themselves, one that allows them to keep the grip from tightening early as that usually changes the cock of the wrist especially if the baby finger grips the cue early as most players will turn their wrist slightly to give that baby finger more purchase.

For me what works best is a very loose grip with the cue just laying on the second finger. As I pull the cue back in a longer backswing the hold is taken up by the forefinger and thumb.

Remember one of the main purposes of the grip is during the delivery to return the cue to the EXACT position it was when at the address position. The other main point of the grip is the player should concentrate on keeping the cue on the same plane throughout the backswing (especially a longer one) and through to the end of the delivery. A lot of players, even very good ones, will raise the butt somewhat at the end of a longer backswing as just relaxing the grip is not enough. The very best players, like Ronnie, will allow the elbow to drop a little bit at the end of a longer backswing and then again at the end of the delivery which means they can easily keep the cue on the same plane throughout.

Terry