4 point contact (Grip,chest,chin,bridge)

[j6uk]

There is an 'ideal' grip taught by most coaches which is you hold the cue with the top inside of the forefinger and thumb (not applying any pressure) with the back 3 fingers quite loose. As you backswing the hold on the cue remains with the thumb and forefinger especially at the end of the backswing and then without tightening that hold you start the delivery, still holding the cue the same until well after the strike when the back 3 fingers re-grip the cue. This happens when the back of the thumb strikes the chest. This gives you what's called the 'snap' and allows faster acceleration through the cueball.

However, each player should experiment and find the ideal grip for themselves, one that allows them to keep the grip from tightening early as that usually changes the cock of the wrist especially if the baby finger grips the cue early as most players will turn their wrist slightly to give that baby finger more purchase.

For me what works best is a very loose grip with the cue just laying on the second finger. As I pull the cue back in a longer backswing the hold is taken up by the forefinger and thumb.

Remember one of the main purposes of the grip is during the delivery to return the cue to the EXACT position it was when at the address position. The other main point of the grip is the player should concentrate on keeping the cue on the same plane throughout the backswing (especially a longer one) and through to the end of the delivery. A lot of players, even very good ones, will raise the butt somewhat at the end of a longer backswing as just relaxing the grip is not enough. The very best players, like Ronnie, will allow the elbow to drop a little bit at the end of a longer backswing and then again at the end of the delivery which means they can easily keep the cue on the same plane throughout.

Terry

who on earth called this the snap? or is this another telism?
any chance you asking the misses if you can go and play in the office, and making a wee movie of you performing a some of the above?

[OmaMiesta]

who on earth called this the snap? or is this another telism?
any chance you asking the misses if you can go and play in the office, and making a wee movie of you performing a some of the above?

I wouldnt mind seeing a video either could you please explain what you meant by the elbow drop during the backswing?

[Terry Davidson]

who on earth called this the snap? or is this another telism?
any chance you asking the misses if you can go and play in the office, and making a wee movie of you performing a some of the above?

I figured that would get a rise out of you j6. Why don't you give us another one of your famous videos from your kitchen showing the real (wrist) 'snap' and then we'll have the real info from an expert

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

I wouldnt mind seeing a video either could you please explain what you meant by the elbow drop during the backswing?

I can't really figure out a way to make that any more clear. If you pull the cue back more than 6" in the backswing and want to keep the cue butt from rising you have to drop the elbow a little bit or else the butt will rise. As you originally come from the pool world perhaps you have been taught the butt of the cue rising at the end of the backswing is correct technique as I've seen a US Coaching video where they show it to be perfect technique with the butt rising 7* and this was actually measured in a still shot on the video.

In snooker it's generally thought the cue should stay on the same plane. If you watch that Shaun Murphy clip again you should see his elbow dropping slightly on a longer backswing and the butt remaining at the same height above the table.

Terry

[j6uk]

so its not called the snap and its a telism?! thats cool. i quite like it.
hold on, you've got that tournament table and cameras ready to go in your dungeon, grands worth of certificates lining your coat ready to flash, and you want me to drop me crutches grab a stocking and a cue, bend over my boys cot and film myself with a ten year old phone cueing on my kitchen surface?! i'll see what i can do..
until then would you like to pop onto your table to show us what your on about?

I figured that would get a rise out of you j6. Why don't you give us another one of your famous videos from your kitchen showing the real (wrist) 'snap' and then we'll have the real info from an expert

Terry

[OmaMiesta]

I can't really figure out a way to make that any more clear. If you pull the cue back more than 6" in the backswing and want to keep the cue butt from rising you have to drop the elbow a little bit or else the butt will rise. As you originally come from the pool world perhaps you have been taught the butt of the cue rising at the end of the backswing is correct technique as I've seen a US Coaching video where they show it to be perfect technique with the butt rising 7* and this was actually measured in a still shot on the video.

In snooker it's generally thought the cue should stay on the same plane. If you watch that Shaun Murphy clip again you should see his elbow dropping slightly on a longer backswing and the butt remaining at the same height above the table.

Terry

oh okay I see, sorry I was just trying to picture the motion but will give it a try tonight at practise! thanks.

[Byrom]

Terry is there really a perfect cue action and grip taught by coaches?

If so why are we all not doing the same thing?- is the grip not a more natural thing that you develop as you go?

Can get over technical this site sometimes - this kid is a bit of a natural potter and he seems to get through the ball well enough to me - is it not better to let him carry on working on position and routines to improve position first - without making him aware of these technical things. Already elbow dropping and sighting and grip and before you know it perrr ting - brain goes dead.

[golferson123]

the op asked so he must be thinking about it, there's thousands of fifty breakers up and down the country so if he wants to take that leap then searching for better technique is one way

[Terry Davidson]

Terry is there really a perfect cue action and grip taught by coaches?

If so why are we all not doing the same thing?- is the grip not a more natural thing that you develop as you go?

Can get over technical this site sometimes - this kid is a bit of a natural potter and he seems to get through the ball well enough to me - is it not better to let him carry on working on position and routines to improve position first - without making him aware of these technical things. Already elbow dropping and sighting and grip and before you know it perrr ting - brain goes dead.

Yeah, but he asked the questions so I answered. Please note I said every player has to experiment and discover his own grip and I've often said every pro has slight differences in their individual technique but that there are about 4 or 5 things they do in common. One of those is keeping the cue on a level plane and on a long backswing of over 6" the only way that can be done while still maintaining the grip is to drop the elbow slightly.

But obviously you believe he should just forget about technique altogether and just work on his cueball control and start improving his positional play so he always has easy shots, which is a good target. Your idea works to a degree however since no one, even Ronnie, can position the cueball perfectly every time and there is always a shot that requires more power and precise cueball strike and if the butt is rising on the backswing it's very hard to hit the cueball precisely where you wanted. Much better to have a straight, level and controlled delivery on a high power shot because you need that sometimes to continue a break.

Generally coaches start out with the basics and teach the 'ideal' technique but no technique, ideal or otherwise, fits every player and each player should practice a lot and experiment a bit so they can find their own ideal technique. It's all about discovery and enjoyment but I agree with you that this forum does get way too technical sometimes and these little technique things are really a non-issue if the player just sticks with whatever he discovers is the technique that works for him.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

who on earth called this the snap? or is this another telism?
any chance you asking the misses if you can go and play in the office, and making a wee movie of you performing a some of the above?

I believe it was originally called the snap by someone who was talking about Jimmy White years ago. The snap is actually the forward movement of the wrist joint coordinated to the time the cueball is struck and it increases the speed of the acceleration through the cueball but this is not something I agree with and I doubt many players could master it, say like Steve James did with his wristy delivery.

Why do you always use sarcasm by the way? The reason I don't upload any videos except that one short one is because I'm on a rural wireless internet service with really crappy upload speed of less than 100Kb.

And another thing...you are always asking me to upload videos of some of the technique issues I discuss here but as I've said before you tout yourself as a master coach but are very reluctant to post videos of yourself showing what you describe. At least I have a valid excuse (and I'm sticking to it).

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

oh okay I see, sorry I was just trying to picture the motion but will give it a try tonight at practise! thanks.

Remember, it's only used on a longer backswing. Quite a few of the top pros use a longer backswing for almost every shot including Ronnie, Shaun Murphy, John Higgins, etc.

If you really want to see an elbow drop do a search on youtube for John Higgins as he gets his right arm almost straight on some of his backswings without having the butt rise (although he's a fairly short guy so really how far can the butt rise with him?).

Terry

[Byrom]

So have you seen him play?

[Terry Davidson]

So have you seen him play?

Who? j6uk, Higgins or OmaMiesta? I've seen one shot by j6, watched Higgins a lot and watched Oma's video on here. So I've seen about 6 seconds of j6 potting a ball in the middle and trying to break the pack (unsuccessfully by the way) but he was saying that's what I should have done during a tournament I played in which was streamed.

There are tons of videos of me out there, mostly bad, as I was on slow tables in the Canadian Championships but I still managed to struggle to 4th place in the Masters and semi-finals in the open where I lost to the eventual winner 6-3. I feel j6 acts like a sandbagger and sits in the bushes sniping with his long and sarcastic guns but is not willing to come out and post some detailed and longer videos of his own.

Terry

[j6uk]

I believe it was originally called the snap by someone who was talking about Jimmy White years ago. The snap is actually the forward movement of the wrist joint coordinated to the time the cueball is struck and it increases the speed of the acceleration through the cueball but this is not something I agree with and I doubt many players could master it, say like Steve James did with his wristy delivery.

Why do you always use sarcasm by the way? The reason I don't upload any videos except that one short one is because I'm on a rural wireless internet service with really crappy upload speed of less than 100Kb.

And another thing...you are always asking me to upload videos of some of the technique issues I discuss here but as I've said before you tout yourself as a master coach but are very reluctant to post videos of yourself showing what you describe. At least I have a valid excuse (and I'm sticking to it).

Terry

i didn't know that tel so thanks and i'll make a note of it. my excuse is my really old phone aint up for doing a decent photo never mind a vid..
do you see me as a master coach, is that how i come across to you?

[Byrom]

Terry I meant OmaMiesta - have you seen the video he posted - or in the flesh in Canada?