Plain ball all the time - nonsense

[Byrom]

No, I make the student understand this: the balls are round, the table is flat and the cue is a wooden stick with something softer at the end to allow you to spin and move the cue ball around with precision. The fundamentals are 95% physics and physiology and 5% feel and touch (the x-factor).

Nobody "naturally" uses a touch of inside to pot balls, they do it because they either were told to do it, or found it by mistake or through experimentation. If the student pursues the game much more deeply to truly understand it, they MIGHT question using side to pot balls, or they might not and just use it for the rest of their playing career.

Is it wrong or right? Well, I suppose it's neither wrong or right if they can produce results: knock in big breaks and have a complete game with safety and more in order to win.

The way I see it though, mostly centre ball will be more reliable and easier to use and allow for much more consistency. I can come to a table cold and knock in long balls and make a break.

How many world titles have you won again?

Basically there is a lot to learn in this game - but you know the ball skids right and you know unless the shot is straight the exact front of the white does not hit the exact back of the OB yes? So if you hit centre ball what part on the front of the white is hitting the contact point on the OB on a cut shot?

Keep your eyes on the line through the ob ball to the pocket - at what point does this contact point ever move? answer never -

All that you need to do is hit that point on the object ball and ball goes in - try playing with the white aim at specific points all over the table marked with blocks of chalk or just pot the white ball in the pocket using left of centre striking or right of centre - can you not do that?

So many people think they are doing it wrong because a coach says you must hit centre ball - that is harder to do consistently than anything I think - so I think JUST doing this is a flawed and limiting method that has been peddled by too many coaches for too long.

[Leo]

I've used unintentional side all my life it's just the way I play, every shot is just right of centre wether its a habit I don't know it's just how I play.

[Byrom]

Ok then let us compare - what is your highest break then Leo - what is your highest break Long bomber?

[thelongbomber]

Yes if you are making a pink off the spot to the left pocket you would use a touch of right side.

Each cue and tip will throw differently. If you can consistently make 9/10 pots with this approach with any cue, then continue using it.

[thelongbomber]

How many world titles have you won again?

Basically there is a lot to learn in this game - but you know the ball skids right and you know unless the shot is straight the exact front of the white does not hit the exact back of the OB yes? So if you hit centre ball what part on the front of the white is hitting the contact point on the OB on a cut shot?

Keep your eyes on the line through the ob ball to the pocket - at what point does this contact point ever move? answer never -

All that you need to do is hit that point on the object ball and ball goes in - try playing with the white aim at specific points all over the table marked with blocks of chalk or just pot the white ball in the pocket using left of centre striking or right of centre - can you not do that?

So many people think they are doing it wrong because a coach says you must hit centre ball - that is harder to do consistently than anything I think - so I think JUST doing this is a flawed and limiting method that has been peddled by too many coaches for too long.

I'm not sure how to respond. Do I know all that you asked? Yes.

The quickest path to improve in this game is to seek the truth, experiment, and test everything. Can centre ball be used to pot balls? Experiment and find out.

[tedisbill]

Hmm. Is it just me, but when I'm in the balls I don't find it any harder to play with side than I do centre ball. In the same way I don't find it harder to play with a bit of top.

[thelongbomber]

but you know the ball skids right

Actually, it's funny you mentioned that. At one time (when I would throw balls in with spin), that's what I thought too. I'm also guessing you probably think that more power "pushes" the angle further also. After changing cues multiple times, and then finally doing various experiments and practice with middle ball for a few months, I reached a different awareness about what I was doing wrong before. As a result of that work, I became able to time the strike very differently (and much better), able to work and experiment with pausing, sighting and much more.

I'm not saying a person can't pot balls with side, I'm saying it's not really needed as much as most think and that centre ball has a lot of benefit.

Each to his own.

[Leo]

Ok then let us compare - what is your highest break then Leo - what is your highest break Long bomber?

Mine is 128

[Byrom]

Hmm. Is it just me, but when I'm in the balls I don't find it any harder to play with side than I do centre ball. In the same way I don't find it harder to play with a bit of top.

yes true for me too

[Terry Davidson]

I definitely agree with a lot of the comments here, especially by LB but definitely NOT by Byrom. As I've said before, during my training with Nic Barrow we tried an experiment where we used side without a cushion involved and as long as the blue was potted into the exact same part of the pocket (we put 2 balls in the way with just 1/8" clearance on each side) the cueball ended up going in the same line and over a 4ft distance the most variance we could get was about 1".

People who use 'helping side' to pot balls have obviously learned to play that way and also have never tried to compare it to plain ball striking. How can a player who uses side on most shots ever hope to be consistent when every cloth will react differently and that's not even considering the distance between the balls. I too am very surprised Cliff Thorburn advocates the use of side or of helping side.

But to Byrom's argument...Steve Davis and Hendry are still the most successful players of the modern era and Joe Davis was undoubtedly the most successful player of his era and not one of them advocated using helping side. Go figure. Side should only be used when there is a cushion involved or else to do a micro-swerve around an intervening ball but why? Well, the brain has enough to work out on any pot and using side complicates the pot when there's no need to.

By all means, learn to use side but my recommendation is experiment with side only after you can deliver the cue consistently straight and not until then. I think a lot of players start using side too early only because it's impresses other players and everyone like to show off, don't they?

[Byrom]

Mine is 128

Not bad Leo -

Now what's your high break again long bomber?

[Leo]

Oh well I suppose I better go back to the drawing board as I'm obviously playing incorrectly

[Byrom]

I definitely agree with a lot of the comments here, especially by LB but definitely NOT by Byrom. As I've said before, during my training with Nic Barrow we tried an experiment where we used side without a cushion involved and as long as the blue was potted into the exact same part of the pocket (we put 2 balls in the way with just 1/8" clearance on each side) the cueball ended up going in the same line and over a 4ft distance the most variance we could get was about 1".

People who use 'helping side' to pot balls have obviously learned to play that way and also have never tried to compare it to plain ball striking. How can a player who uses side on most shots ever hope to be consistent when every cloth will react differently and that's not even considering the distance between the balls. I too am very surprised Cliff Thorburn advocates the use of side or of helping side.

But to Byrom's argument...Steve Davis and Hendry are still the most successful players of the modern era and Joe Davis was undoubtedly the most successful player of his era and not one of them advocated using helping side. Go figure. Side should only be used when there is a cushion involved or else to do a micro-swerve around an intervening ball but why? Well, the brain has enough to work out on any pot and using side complicates the pot when there's no need to.

By all means, learn to use side but my recommendation is experiment with side only after you can deliver the cue consistently straight and not until then. I think a lot of players start using side too early only because it's impresses other players and everyone like to show off, don't they?

How many Canadian titles you won again?

Name me one pro in the top 32 that only uses plain ball then Terry - I will ask them for you if you like

[Terry Davidson]

How many Canadian titles you won again?

Name me one pro that only uses plain ball then Terry - I will ask them for you if you like

Byrom:

FFS....is this a religion to you or something? Make an argument that makes sense first. How many titles have you won.

Names of pros who do not advocate the use of helping side - Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry the 2 most successful players in the modern era. I don't know ROS but I believe he does not use your 'helping side' to pot balls but does use side all the time when a cushion is involved and he needs the side for position.

A pro who actually ADVOCATED the use of 'helping side' is Willie Thorne who won a very large number amounts of titles (1 I believe).

I teach students not to use side when there is no cushion involved with the cueball on a shot. I teach students to use side when a cushion is involved and it's required for better position, like on the break shot for instance. Using helping side just complicates the shot, especially long pots on a strange table.

[thelongbomber]

134, but highest break doesn't mean anything in the context of this post. If you are courageous, give centre ball a chance. It really is worth spending some quality time with.

You will always find a few pros that use side a lot more than others to pot balls. Using side to spin balls in/out can be executed at a very high standard - as I'm guessing you are doing - but I also know it has severe limitations for most trying to learn the game. It's very reliable until you change cues or play on a different cloth.