Plain ball all the time - nonsense

[Byrom]

I think you should hit wherever you need to on the cue ball to gain the desired position that you need for your next shot. Whatever feels the most comfortable to you and produces the best and most consistent results is what you should be doing.

Let me re post this guy too

[Byrom]

Nobody has ever said all good players or even any good players use centre-ball striking all the time. It's what you said, i.e. - all top pros use helping side on every shot. That just ain't true and I would say NONE of the top players use helping side on all shots. ALL of the top pros use side of some kind on SOME shots.

where did I say that please show me - because again that is not true is it Terry - bit like your max making.

[OmaMiesta]

what shots are easier with using side?

A ball closer to a rail I find is easier with a touch of outside, various cut shots are easier with side (aiming bit thick or thin)

[lesedwards]

I really can't understand why the arguments on this thread!! We all play our own game on how we feel most comfortable, so there's no right or wrong. I play with unintentional side not because I'm cueing there deliberately it's just how I play since an early age, wether this is wrong who gives a toss it doesn't effect my game.

You got it Leo, has any one heard the saying "ITS NOT HOW ITS HOW MANY" who really cares how you get there as long as you get there. Cliff wins the World Championship with the Les Edwards jab as Cliff calls it a little chip shot and then Selby win with a back swing that looks like he is shooting bow n arrows. Who really cares how they got there, they just did. Over and Out from across the Pond......

[OmaMiesta]

I don't understand how hitting the white ball with side affects the object ball, surely the side doesn't transfer to the object ball so how can it be helping side, I understand throwing the angle of the white with a little side and use it myself but are you not making any pot more difficult using side? Educate me

Spin does effect the object ball in various ways, one of them is transferring spin. When a clock wise spinning ball makes contact with an object ball, the white will cling for a split second and act as sort of a gear and make the object ball spin counter clockwise, this is the throw effect

[thelongbomber]

I don't understand how hitting the white ball with side affects the object ball, surely the side doesn't transfer to the object ball so how can it be helping side, I understand throwing the angle of the white with a little side and use it myself but are you not making any pot more difficult using side? Educate me

With very clean polished balls, using side doesn't affect the object ball. Spin transfer does actually exist through the gear effect, but it's not well understood. If the balls are dirty or there is a chalk mark, the gear effect plays a bigger role. Steve Davis says you can't impart spin, but physically that can't be true. If you go to a bar, and play with very dirty balls, you will definitely see spin transfer take place.

What side does, in theory, is make you believe you can aim more easily, but in actual fact you are compensating in real time for how the side effects the cue ball path from the cue ball and tip deflection. The problem is that anyone consistently use side to pot balls will be thrown out of whack if they change their tip, cue, balls, cloth or anything else that can vary. Each of these will react differently to side.

[tedisbill]

As previously stated, it was on video so I told you guys about it. A 134 clearance isn't actually that important in the context of all the others things going on in my life right at this moment - mega issues, none of your business. You seem to be probing for truth in what I said, which tells me you don't trust me. How sad for you. You should take a hiatus from this forum to get some perspective as it's not healthy to be so reliant on what others say or do.

Correct. I think you're talking a load of rubbish. You don't look good enough to be having a break like that. You hardly play on a full size table and your highest break was 80 odd a few months ago. Then all of a sudden, when Byrom asked you what your highest break was, it was magically 134.

And if we're giving each other life advice now as well, I'd quit smoking because that's not healthy either and get some perspective

[cyberheater]

The more I practice, the better I get, the more side I use. I'm not a 50 break builder. Yet.

I kind of see it as a chicken and egg problem. Folks don't like to use it because the white deflects so you have to adjust your potting angle which is hard to work out. On the other hand, you have to play side to work out how much the white deflects. The more side I use, the more I'm able to predict how to change the angle of aim. I hope that makes sense.

One thing I would say. If you're a plain ball potter then changing cue shouldn't be too much of a problem for you. But if you use a lot of side then it's very important to stick to one cue and learn how it throws the white.

[haggishunter]

Nobody has ever said all good players or even any good players use centre-ball striking all the time. It's what you said, i.e. - all top pros use helping side on every shot. That just ain't true and I would say NONE of the top players use helping side on all shots. ALL of the top pros use side of some kind on SOME shots.

this is what I agree with.
I would also add that in the vast majority of sports/games out there people use tools/techniques to make the game easier/improve the way its played etc and I don't think snooker is any different. I think that applying side on every single shot on purpose is making an already very complicated game even more complicated. this does not add up for me, if someone played the game like that from the very first shot they ever played and it works then fair enough, if it ain't broke don't fix it but other than that I honestly cant see the logic in actively trying to play like this. it just does not make sense. nobody is questioning the use of side here, but to use it in this manner I'm not so sure but hey I'm also no expert.....

[Byrom]

Agree with his post fair enough but please don't agree that I said something I did not say. Terry miss quoted me - AGAIN.

[monkeytennis]

My two pence: I am one of those players that uses side on a good 80% of off-straight shots. In some instances it does indeed make the pot easier, and allows for a slightly different path for the cue ball. However, I am trying to cut down on the side because the big negative is that you leave yourself at the mercy of the table conditions.

If you play on an unfamiliar table with a slidey cloth, or a thick cloth, or with light or old heavy balls then you can find the level of deflection changes. I played in a tournament last year on a Star tournament table, having been practicing on a sluggish old cloth, and I could barely pot a ball because the cue ball was deflecting more than I was used to. It made me look a right idiot. Had I been using centre ball striking, my potting would have been far more reliable, but old habits die hard.

Incidentally, I had a coaching session with Frank Addison (one time coach of Ronnie) and he advocated the same thing.

The pros can afford to use side on most of their shots as the conditions can be relied upon to be consistent. At amateur level this isn't the case.

[Ramon]

The more I practice, the better I get, the more side I use. I'm not a 50 break builder. Yet.

I kind of see it as a chicken and egg problem. Folks don't like to use it because the white deflects so you have to adjust your potting angle which is hard to work out. On the other hand, you have to play side to work out how much the white deflects. The more side I use, the more I'm able to predict how to change the angle of aim. I hope that makes sense.

One thing I would say. If you're a plain ball potter then changing cue shouldn't be too much of a problem for you. But if you use a lot of side then it's very important to stick to one cue and learn how it throws the white.

Agreed and well said !!!! I think ,, striking the CB in the center CONSISTENLY,, is an art !! is not easy!! There are also some coaches who advise useing side ( helping side ) sometimes, not only to get the good position but also to refresh your mind!! so you can address the old rhythm back and hitting the center of the CB again on a consistent way !! IMO,,, as long as it works for you .. that's the most important thing !!!

[9outof10]

I just learned side by starting out moving the tip away from centre a smidgen on shots and then more and more over months. Just start out slow. Don't try extreme side till you work up to it.

[CoachGavin]

Plain ball all the time - nonsense

My personal opinion is that as a coach players are taught to cue centre ball. This means the player does not have to adjust for throw. Different cues, cloths and tips will all throw different amounts and if a player can't pot anyway why start putting loads of side on? As a player improves he will learn to play with side and be able to compensate for the throw. Most players who know a little about breakbuilding will play some shots with side to keep position or play a better safety. Learning about side will take a player to the next level but top pros play each shot depending on where they want the white. sometimes they will need to use side and sometimes not.

[luke-h]

My personal opinion is that as a coach players are taught to cue centre ball. This means the player does not have to adjust for throw. Different cues, cloths and tips will all throw different amounts and if a player can't pot anyway why start putting loads of side on? As a player improves he will learn to play with side and be able to compensate for the throw. Most players who know a little about breakbuilding will play some shots with side to keep position or play a better safety. Learning about side will take a player to the next level but top pros play each shot depending on where they want the white. sometimes they will need to use side and sometimes not.

+1. master centre ball potting then add bit's if needed, i always hear people down the club saying to their playing partners about putting left,right hand side...when in fact they ought to just learn the art of potting first and foremost.

always make's me giggle.