How much pressure on Bridge hand?

[j6uk]

I would hazzard a guess, that if you sat around chatting away merrily with a number of really top level players, be they amateur or professional, they would not have a bloody clue what this was all about.
why would they not know? they've done the time on the table and some like some of us
In my experience of spending a fair amount of time around such people, I've not once heard this, ever.
being a cue maker i would think cues and what shafts you have would come up quite a bit

Any apparent bending of a cue during a shot is most likely to occur on backswing, and, is likely to be due to the raising of the grip hand. This disappears (or should disappear) during delivery, as the grip hand moves foward on the stroke, dropping as it moves back towards it's original position at address, where the cue was straight / straight..ish (or aiming to travel along a flat plane)
clever trevor but i think we know that
There would be no way in a squillion years that a player would be intentionally putting stress through the cue shaft.
maybe but it does happen
There is not a grain of truth in it either that it will aid anything in respect of accuracy or power
if you got the cue fixed between bridge, chin and so called grip, why would it not help?
, and, if done intentionally by others in some misguided exercise to seek improvement, is very likely to achieve nothing, apart from confusion and disappointment.
with this conclution you've obviously missed it completely

That's me out of this one, it's utterly bonkers and I don't have the meds to cope with reading any more....no matter how bored I am.

you out again, when the meds are sorted and your bored enough hope you come back to us on this thread

[buddfridgeman]

Thanks j6uk

My thanks are just for having an open mind, I don't mean to preach but I have been a member for a long time and have never posted a negative response to any other user on this site.

If I have a thought about a subject I will give a view, but if my view is to be dismissive or rude the I would rather not respond at all.

I don't mean to be disrespectful of anybody but I did find trevs posts patronising and rude.

While I respect your views trev ..I would have thought you would have used a less offensive manor to write them.

[Byrom]

To be fair to Trevor White I have played the game years and never heard of this either so I was sceptical too -

I think players in general alter the grip for certain shots and this technique probably works best on the aforementioned shots close in with less pull back but more power needed and the results for me has been more accuracy with more power rather than using a longer back swing to generate the same power which carries a little less percentage - The other night I found myself doing it naturally during games and I made 3 60's a few 50's and 40's and generally very consistent all evening to the point the other guy who usually wins a few said he was totally destroyed and felt he was here just to take balls out for me.

A little gentle pressure at times was all that was needed - This is where I think people mis-understood the advice - trying possibly to replicate Judd shots lol - For me it helped feeling a little gentle pressure on the bridge - not a bendy coiled spring or wham smack it in Judd - although I will be trying out a few Judd Trump things for a laugh - I just built it up gradually and tried it out on certain shots we have mentioned = maybe it is just something that felt good slotting into my game because of my grip. It may not work for everyone but it is whatever feels natural and I am comfy changing my grip for certain shots so my assessment is that I feel like I have added something to my game.

Therefore while it may not be understood properly or might not feel natural for everyone it has for me and I thank the posters for coming out and saying it -

I will say this too - in closing some people - experienced players - can give some good advice that does not come from a coaching manual - it is maybe wrong to just knock that advice on a thread without trying it out first yourself - Like getting a Trevor White cue in the post and then slating it first without playing a game - now how would that feel?

[timcunnell]

Just wanted to say that I tried this technique last night but couldn't really manage it!? For me, I just couldn't figure out how to manipulate my grip in order to generate any extra downforce into my bridge. Perhaps I haven't grasped how much extra downforce is being talked about?
Evidently we're not talking about creating cue bend - that is too extreme! But enough to crush a grape, for example?

[buddfridgeman]

To be fair to Trevor White I have played the game years and never heard of this either so I was sceptical too -

I think players in general alter the grip for certain shots and this technique probably works best on the aforementioned shots close in with less pull back but more power needed and the results for me has been more accuracy with more power rather than using a longer back swing to generate the same power which carries a little less percentage - The other night I found myself doing it naturally during games and I made 3 60's a few 50's and 40's and generally very consistent all evening to the point the other guy who usually wins a few said he was totally destroyed and felt he was here just to take balls out for me.

A little gentle pressure at times was all that was needed - This is where I think people mis-understood the advice - trying possibly to replicate Judd shots lol - For me it helped feeling a little gentle pressure on the bridge - not a bendy coiled spring or wham smack it in Judd - although I will be trying out a few Judd Trump things for a laugh - I just built it up gradually and tried it out on certain shots we have mentioned = maybe it is just something that felt good slotting into my game because of my grip. It may not work for everyone but it is whatever feels natural and I am comfy changing my grip for certain shots so my assessment is that I feel like I have added something to my game.

Therefore while it may not be understood properly or might not feel natural for everyone it has for me and I thank the posters for coming out and saying it -

I will say this too - in closing some people - experienced players - can give some good advice that does not come from a coaching manual - it is maybe wrong to just knock that advice on a thread without trying it out first yourself - Like getting a Trevor White cue in the post and then slating it first without playing a game - now how would that feel?

A very good reply there,
yes you are right it works for certain shots..as I said all along, with persistance it can become a real asset.
It is very hard to describe to somebody how much downforce is needed..its not much and that is why people have become confused with cue bending and a tight grip...its none of these is just a very controlled technique and I think it could help a few players develop a stronger game.

[buddfridgeman]

Just wanted to say that I tried this technique last night but couldn't really manage it!? For me, I just couldn't figure out how to manipulate my grip in order to generate any extra downforce into my bridge. Perhaps I haven't grasped how much extra downforce is being talked about?
Evidently we're not talking about creating cue bend - that is too extreme! But enough to crush a grape, for example?

No my friend, how best to describe this,writting your name in the wet sand with a finger pressure on your bridge hand...its just a little more than just relaxing the cue on the bridge and the grip is a fraction stronger.

Sorry this was of no use to you, but thanks for the reply.

[timcunnell]

Ah thanks Budd. No I will definitely try again with this. Like you said before, those who've tried this (and good players too!) have reported back that it helps. So I am not writing it off just yet. Back on the practice table this weekend and I will have another go.
(I was playing a friendly match with a mate last night so didn't really get the chance to try it out too much! I need a line-up or something for stuff like this!).
Thanks again for your advice

[buddfridgeman]

I tend to find it works best when in close stunning, screwing or following through, my advice would be start off with blacks off the spot using swallow angles...get a feel for it from there and expand a little.

I wouldnt consider this a cue action for every shot but close in and forcing angles or screws work a treat for me.

[vmax4steve]

A little gentle pressure at times was all that was needed - This is where I think people mis-understood the advice - trying possibly to replicate Judd shots lol - For me it helped feeling a little gentle pressure on the bridge - not a bendy coiled spring or wham smack it in Judd - although I will be trying out a few Judd Trump things for a laugh - I just built it up gradually and tried it out on certain shots we have mentioned = maybe it is just something that felt good slotting into my game because of my grip. It may not work for everyone but it is whatever feels natural and I am comfy changing my grip for certain shots so my assessment is that I feel like I have added something to my game.

Ray Reardon says the grip should be firm but not tight so you could just be moving from a loose grip to a slightly firmer one. All this talk about deliberate downward pressure of the cue from the grip hand could simply be the physical sensation of how a firmer grip feels rather than actual pressure being implemented.

[timcunnell]

The eternal scientist in me would love to take someone who plays certain shots like this. Then get them to place their bridge hand on some digital scales. Then see how much the weight increases by as perceived downforce is applied via the cue into the bridge.

I must get out more.

[j6uk]

relax your neck and let your head rest that bit more on the cue, bingo

[j6uk]

so the so called down pressure is the head, thats it in the nutshell

[Terry Davidson]

I thought the original post was about applying pressure on the cue (but not bending it like Trump) between the bridge and the grip by only using the grip and bridge with the chin and chest not involved. It would require a lot of pressure on the web between forefinger and thumb and my thoughts are that cannot be a good thing. Also the back of the grip would have to be raised in order to push the cue downwards.

Very easy to do using the bridge, chin, chest and grip by just lifting the butt and lowering the chin and chest.

[trevs1]

I thought the original post was about applying pressure on the cue (but not bending it like Trump) between the bridge and the grip by only using the grip and bridge with the chin and chest not involved. It would require a lot of pressure on the web between forefinger and thumb and my thoughts are that cannot be a good thing. Also the back of the grip would have to be raised in order to push the cue downwards.

Very easy to do using the bridge, chin, chest and grip by just lifting the butt and lowering the chin and chest.

Clearly, it's the lifting of the grip all along that causes bending of the shaft in a Trump stylie. Deliberate downward pressure onto the bridge, by placing pressure through the grip hand is never a good idea. Any book, coach or player who knows anything about technique will state the grip should be fairly loose, which is (or would be) impossible if the grip was having to provide pressure though the cue and onto the shaft. I'm sure virtually everyone worth their salt would agree with that too. The idea that a pressurised cue shaft at address stores some kind of energy is just ludicrous and should not be taken seriously. If someone feels that's a winner for them, then great, knock yourself out trying that and good luck. But, to suggest it's something that can help other players is a recipe for trouble.


Edit to add....


What exactly is the reference to "coiled spring" about in post 16, 20, 22, 43 and so on.?.... Also, I have never heard the term "downforce" used in relation to good cueing.

I know this is stating the obvious here but to me......

Great cueing is where a player delivers a cue consistently, along a straight line, in as flat a plane as is reasonably possible and with the desired amount of acceleration. Put it this way...If you could use a magic eraser and make the player disappear, so all you could see is the cue travelling through the shot, you would see it moving straight, flat (or flat...ish) and without bending at all before contact. Spin and power are generated by the speed of delivery, coupled with correct point of contact on the cueball and a tip travelling right through and beyond the point of contact against the cueball. Yes, some players have a greater ability to create more power, just as some cues will enable the creation of more movement on the white easily, but the principles are the same for all.

Advocating a technique which attempts to emulate a player (Judd) who causes some bend to his cue shaft during backswing is not great advice, no matter how you slice it. Stating in post 44 that "we have established that Judd Trump uses his chin to bend the cue" is simply not true at all. It's what "you" have assumed to be true, not "we". He bends the cue because he raises his grip hand during backswing, while not raising or moving his head, nothing more than that. He gets his accuracy and power from delivering the cue piston straight with fabulous timing, right through the cueball. The fact that he might have a very responsive cue perhaps helps too, I don't know as I've not used his cue, but on those cloths, moving the white is not too tricky. Joe Swail had shedloads of cuepower, but would anyone want to copy that technique.?...I'd guess not. If anyone wants to model themselves on anything, it should be technical correctness as much as possible. Look to O'Sullivan, Murphy and suchlike if you want to learn how to go about achieving a fabulous technique.

I understand that you weren't the original poster and that your comments are coming with good intentions, but I would be utterly amazed if any professional player actually deliberately applies the sort of pressure required to the cue, in order to bend the shaft intentionally through the shot. Please, if anyone knows of one, let me know and I'll happily eat my words. I apologise for being fairly harsh and critical in my comments, but I stand by the essence of what I wrote. The whole idea of any excessive downward pressure on the cue is simply wrong, whereas doing so to cause deliberate bending of the cue shaft is madness. It is not good advice at all.

I do not post anything just to be argumentative and try to be open to others views, especially when they have merit and come from sound foundations with no agenda.

Anyway, that really is it from me.

Note.... @ J6uk

I'm not really sure what you're getting at in post 61, but I have a suggestion.

Why doesn't someone email the BBC and ask a question on this when the WC is on.?

A question such as....

"Why does Judd's cue bend during his backswing, and is this something he (or others) would do deliberately to create more control / power.? Is there a benefit to this.?

I'll give £100 to charity of the Forums (or Ferret's) choice if someone gets that question answered on air for all to hear the reply.

[j6uk]

welcome back trev, no one has sugested putting downward pressure on the cue at address and i don't believe judds placing any pressure through his so called grip, or lifting it