Why isn't the Trump technique and Set-up now the Textbook Standard?

[Byrom]

This getting a joke now..

Oh come on Leo its only an experiment -

I am not normally an advocate of animal testing but I thought I would read out the dominant eye theory and coaching advice on here to my cats first - so I could see if there are any side effects----

[Master Blaster]

I'll need to take that analyse that post further and try some things later... Thanks.

In your opinion MB would you say that because I wear contact lenses that the dominant eye theory wont make any difference to me ? .... Premise behind that is that my eyes have been corrected to somewhat normal type visison.

Hi mate, you can use either eye for then shot, the brain corrects for what you make it use. Lenses or glasses are no issue. Most Olympic archers and those who shoot will choose an eye to aim. So it is with snooker but it doesn't have to be your dominant eye. Find out what your dominant eye is first. This is simple. Hold a finger up at arms length against a distant spot on a picture or wall or something and keep your finger still. Close your left eye. If your finger appears to be over the spot, you're R eye dominant. You can use either eye to take the shot and the best one, in combination with your set-up will be found by experiment with potting, the harder the pots, the more indicative the test.

Test 2: without thinking about which eye is dominant, get down on the shot as you normally do. Close your left eye and see if the cue appears to be straight. If it looks straight, you're using your right eye on the shot. If the cue looks to be at an angle, you're using your left eye. Repeat the test by closing your right eye. If after closing both eyes, the cue is not straight, you need to make a correction by turning your head to the left or right and getting that cue under the right or left side of your chin. I found that if I turned my head to the right and the cue just touches the left corner of my chin, the cue is dead straight to my L eye. Again, experiment.

No matter which eye you use, the cue should appear straight. This is true even when people cue centre chin between the eyes, they usually angle the cue to make it appear straight to one eye but that's an inferior method because angling a cue is a hindrance to straight cue delivery IME. Once you've got the cue appearing straight, dead straight using one eye, you should be able to pot 10 out of 10 long straight blues with your eyes closed. Yes, CLOSED. I can do this on a good day and it's simply because I've sighted the straight shot as straight, the cue looks straight when I'm down so all I have to do is deliver the cue straight and smooth.

[mikeyd100]

Tetricky thank you so much for that laymans terms explanation !!! Now I understand, the penny has dropped hahaa
I am right eye dominant when doing the framing thing ( made a square with my hands outstretched - is that correct ? )
Also a right handed player.
Like you said I myself sight with eyes equal over the cue, straight in the middle of my chin.
So now should I try to use my right eye ONLY when cueing up a shot... is it only your head you move to line up with the right eye ?

* Sorry if I'm asking a lot from you or taking up your time but your post made a lot of sense to me *

Cheers, much appreciated

[mikeyd100]

Master Blaster some sound advice and things to try there, nice explanation - as was tetricky's.
I've not tried things like this before so its all new to me - of course getting the cue through straight can be a problem for me sometimes.

Yep I'm gonna definitely try these things you guys mention and experiment when I get the chance.

Thanks a heap - your advice and time is appreciated.
( PS.. I'm not the best player out there but subtle changes may help with some consistency ).

[Master Blaster]

Master Blaster some sound advice and things to try there, nice explanation - as was tetricky's.
I've not tried things like this before so its all new to me - of course getting the cue through straight can be a problem for me sometimes.

Yep I'm gonna definitely try these things you guys mention and experiment when I get the chance.

Thanks a heap - your advice and time is appreciated.
( PS.. I'm not the best player out there but subtle changes may help with some consistency ).

Good luck bud. You got nothing to lose trying a few things out. If they work, keep them. If not, bin them.

[mikeyd100]

Good luck bud. You got nothing to lose trying a few things out. If they work, keep them. If not, bin them.

Exactly mate...may as well give it a shot <<<< pun totally intended haha

[tedisbill]

This is another great thread for people who don't know what they're doing, talking like they do.

It's fun though, so carry on.

[Master Blaster]

Exactly mate...may as well give it a shot <<<< pun totally intended haha

Folk on here can take the pee all they want Mikey, but the plain fact is that Judd and Robbo use a particular type of set-up for superior long potting and power. Here are a list of some pros using their inside, opposite to cue hand eye, Ronnieo (the greatest player ever), Juddo and Robbo (the top long potters on the power at the mo) and Jimmy, the greatest and most natural shot player of all time (R eye centre chin):

[mikeyd100]

Yes I guess there will always be people who dispute whats said, thats cool though, nothing wrong with sharing ideas, theories, opinions etc, even polite disagreement.
Watching JimmyO and Alex HigginsO, < sh*t the "O" lol... was the reason why I wanted to pick up a cue.
I see what you are saying re the above video - R eye, centre chin.
Jimmy was awesome, I replay that pink and black against Kirk Stevens over and over sometimes, just purely stunning to see what he could do with a cue in his hands !! Met Jimmy too, seems like a top guy, has time for people.

[Master Blaster]

Yes I guess there will always be people who dispute whats said, thats cool though, nothing wrong with sharing ideas, theories, opinions etc, even polite disagreement.
Watching JimmyO and Alex HigginsO, < sh*t the "O" lol... was the reason why I wanted to pick up a cue.
I see what you are saying re the above video - R eye, centre chin.
Jimmy was awesome, I replay that pink and black against Kirk Stevens over and over sometimes, just purely stunning to see what he could do with a cue in his hands !! Met Jimmy too, seems like a top guy, has time for people.

Brilliant bloke that Jimmy. Yeah, his break building was pretty good and cue ball control pretty good but not up there with Davis and Hendry in their pomp. Tons of natural talent. Ronnie, Davis and Hendry can partisan a crowd but everyone liked Jimmy, no-one disliked him.

I said that going down one side of the chin may lead to straighter cueing as one doesn't have to angle the cue across as per centre chin, like Jimmy. But again, it' a case of try it and see. If you cue centre chin and angling the cue works for you better than going down one side of the chin, do that. Most players angle across the chin (and trick the dominant eye to see the cue straight) by using the boxer stance with anchor foot pointing out, not in-line on the shot-line. If you adopt the boxer stance and get down, you will find the cue naturally angles across under centre chin. The cue can be made to angle and still appear straight using foot in line stance (like Davis) as well. Jimmy started out boxer and tried to square up later. Every player is different and coaching is about getting players to explore the options (should they wish to improve) and see if anything can be added to improve their games. But yeah, I think everyone should try the Judd or Robbo set-up, even if it's only for a couple of weeks.

[mikeyd100]

I think Jimmy just lacked that machine / robotic type Snooker that Hendry & Davis had but thats what made Jimmy the man he was, like you say, I dont know anybody that has bad words to say about him.

For sure I'm going to have a look at the things you mention, it makes some sense so its worth a try.
My game is inconsistent so try and apply... then at least I can say I've tried

[Master Blaster]

I think Jimmy just lacked that machine / robotic type Snooker that Hendry & Davis had but thats what made Jimmy the man he was, like you say, I dont know anybody that has bad words to say about him.

For sure I'm going to have a look at the things you mention, it makes some sense so its worth a try.
My game is inconsistent so try and apply... then at least I can say I've tried

I coach a mate a bit who is now playing foot in line. When it works he's a solid and accurate potter, more so than foot pointing out. He's adjusted a few things. When these things don't work, he can miss by inches. But these changes have only been in his game for 9mths, it may take a couple of years for them to be 'go to' without thinking and analysing/reviewing. Unless you're really lucky, it's not a case of change, click and brilliant after a week. It's generally, wow, that was special in places and ugly in others but is it promising enough to carry on? That's the biggest conundrum of all that each player has to answer, not even most coaches wish to say for certain and I certainly don't want to take anyone down the wrong path. So I say, try it for a few sessions over a couple of weeks and see if it produces a positive difference. Tbh, I felt the JT set-up with opposite eye produced incredible accuracy and power. But my breaks are really down and the feel is miles off, I'm losing position badly. I put this down to learning how to control the power, as we did when we first picked up a cue. And getting used to the correct position on the inside of the chin is tricky, a couple of mm out and you can miss the shot due to not seeing the cue dead straight. It's gonna take a lot of time but I will persist as I love the power and potting, it's a great buzz when you can play as well (on one shot at least) as the pros, it's mighty. The feeling afterwards is a buzz, let's do that again, looking forward to more. It doesn't feel difficult, it feels easy and it has no stress, just pure confidence in your technique and ability. It feels like, I want to show this off to my mates more, let em see the JT technique and weap. Who's got the mojo now then! The shock on their faces; priceless.

A completely different technique and set-up feels like starting again. One thing is for sure, it generates interest and wakes your snooker brain up out of any slumber it has fallen into. Was it Methi who said it took two years to develop a cue action? Jesus, and he was playing full time! So it's a lot of effort and you have to love the game to want to change and improve. Folk can still get terrific pleasure from the standard they already have and the time they put it in, so change for them is the wrong thing. Life and snooker should be about being happy as well. Peace.

[mikeyd100]

Yeah I dont want to make too many drastic / hardcore changes, for me it is more basic and tweaking.
Trial and error - and patience I suppose.
Well I hope your mate, ( and yourself ) get satisfaction from the changes made but also enjoy the little journey of it all.
True words at the end too... enjoy it, be happy with it... well as happy as you can be anyway

[tetricky]

Tetricky thank you so much for that laymans terms explanation !!! Now I understand, the penny has dropped hahaa
I am right eye dominant when doing the framing thing ( made a square with my hands outstretched - is that correct ? )
Also a right handed player.
Like you said I myself sight with eyes equal over the cue, straight in the middle of my chin.
So now should I try to use my right eye ONLY when cueing up a shot... is it only your head you move to line up with the right eye ?

* Sorry if I'm asking a lot from you or taking up your time but your post made a lot of sense to me *

Cheers, much appreciated

That's what I'm saying, yes. For me it was a change in stance - instead of lining up with my chin over the cue, and head level (equal spacing of the eyes either side of the cue). I line up with my chin over the cue, and my head tilted such that my dominant eye is directly over the cue (and therefore looking straight down the line of the shot).I know some people, not many, that close the non-dominant eye to sight. I wouldn't recommend it, because you lose depth perception, and for me it mucks up other aspects of the shot - but try, it might work for you. I have the chin over the cue head tilted, because my dominant eye is opposite to my handedness (right eye, left handed), but you might find chin alongside the cue eye over the cue works better if you have same eye, same hand (as you appear to).

It's a concept that I took from here: http://fcsnooker.co.uk/coaching/basi...g/sighting.htm after years of batting around small marginal changes, I think going to those basics (there is more coaching tips on the frank callan site - I have no affiliation, I've just used them for guidance) was the catalyst for the first real step change in my game (from scrabbling occasional 40-50's, to making more and higher breaks). Nobody in my family and friends was ever a player, and nobody showed me how to play the game, nor have I had any coaching...so this is all watching people play, and hit and miss for me - I claim to be no expert, I practice my own mistakes.

I don't know what the perceived wisdom is, and I sometimes find it hard to detect whether snidey comments are directed at people in general, me in particular, or just anyone with an opinion that is contrary to anothers. So in order that you might weigh the value of the opinion. I'm no great player, but I think this (along with the other Frank Callan basics) really helped me personally move forward. YMMV.

[mikeyd100]

Thanks again, I've bookmarked the link to have a good look at later on, had a quick glance and looks well written and easy to follow.
Yep as I said to Master blaster I also am no expert or top notch player but I know I've got a lot more in my game and my play has been off for a while so these tips / hints you are giving are good advice.

Well I think you have been helpful and I appreciate your replies and sharing your experiences.
There should be no snide from anyone in my opinion as you are just trying to help a fellow cueman out