A degree in physics to play snooker?

[tommygunner1309]

Having read huge amounts of data on this site over many months, I can't help feeling that anyone new, interested in learning how to play the game of snooker, believes that a Masters degree in physics is required, before taking up a cue to play a shot. You can, easily, over-complicate the whole thing to such a degree that failure is the only feeling you experience when stepping up to play. The 'you must do it like this' or 'you will never pot a ball with that stance' and 'There is only one way to play this game' is all nonsense !!! Take some time out to watch some vids of Alex Higgins. He potted some of the most extraordinary pots I have ever seen, while his head was moving like a nodding donkey, his cue was pointing straight up to the ceiling within a milli second of striking the white, and he was stood up straighter than a guardsman before his cue had finished its stroke. OK, it is not something that would work for most of us, but I believe, IF YOU ARE JUST STARTING OUT, there are only a few basics to get you going. Practice makes permanent !! so practice a few basics which are good practice to get you going. Remember, the most important thing is to push the cue through in a straight line, particularly on straight shots.
Keeping the head and the upper body still, is essential to do this. As far as stance goes, find out what is best for you. Steve Davis won world championships with a boxer stance, left leg ahead of right, but later won world championships with a straight on stance i.e. both feet in line and the body pointing on the line of the shot. This is my preferred stance, as I have a dominant right eye and it suits me best. Ray Reardon turned his body slightly to the right, but nowhere near as much as Joe Davis. John Parrott cued under his left eye. John Virgo under his right and Davis and Terry Griffiths had an even sighted approach, ie cue under nose and chin. Frank Callan says 'If the eye which is doing the sighting is not directly over the cue, you will have a strong tendency to hit across the ball'.
As you progress, maybe a more in depth look at your action is required and a good coach, like Nic Barrow will improve on what you have worked on. But the more information you try to put into your head, and the more complicated you make the physics, the less you will enjoy playing, and even worse, the more likely you are to completely wreck your game. Leave the degree in physics to the 100 break people who want to make the maximum. Keep upper body and head still. Cue straight. And have your eyes on the object ball when you strike the cue ball. Push the cue through the ball. Stay down on the shot until the ball is potted. Practice these basics - Practice makes Permanent - Permanent = Consistency - And have a set plan each time you go to practice. The worst thing you can do is just turn up - and start hitting balls. I always have a set plan with a set goal. I practice straight blues off its spot (to all corner pockets) for 15 minutes. Then I practice a short line up (Blue, Pink and Black with four reds between P and B and the object is 45 points, 50 being max) for 15 minutes. Then I practice Blue,Pink and Black in that order with accent on position for 15 minutes, Then practice long pot Reds for 15 minutes (cue ball from D, and reds placed in positions found after a break off or after a good safety.)

Most of all - enjoy what you are doing. Leave the complicated physics to the pro's and top amateurs - set your goals and achieve them regularly so that you can move on to the next stage.

Top coaches and "experts" will pull this advice to pieces - but don't be put off - you will see great improvements - and if you really want to go 'in depth' - go out and buy 'Frank Callan's Snooker Clinic'. It may have been published in 1989 and snooker has moved on a great deal, but believe me, with the grounding from this book YOU will become a much better player.

[tetricky]

I agree! I have a degree in physics, and I'm a worse player than my peers who sacked off studying and spent the time in the snooker hall. I think the most important thing is practice. Some understanding of how to stand, grip, and bridge, along with where to hit the cue ball and what that will do helps....but theorising about it is massively inferior to practicing it. I'd be a let better player if I had more time to practice, and spent a lower proportion of time thinking about it!

[Leo]

Many people on this forum who get into the physics of the game are normally just running on a load of old tat and it's easily skipped if people wish to ignore which I do as snooker is not a complicated as the lecturers on here make out, it's as easy and as hard as you make it. Enjoy the game and learn from practice.

[Master Blaster]

Depends what you want from the game, a modicum of improvement to your game or match game or league game or to eventually hit those tons. Or some very in-depth coaching like Bingo had to turn his game around and win the worlds years later. If it's the middle or latter then bigger changes are usually called for. If not, then Callan's book may be all you need. Each to their own.

But if you go and see a coach and I think every player should consider doing this before becoming a cue tart as many do on here, the coach will ask you straight away, what are you looking to get out of being coached, i.e. what improvements do you want in your game? If you want big improvements, and let's say you're a thirty breaker like man, you may be shocked at some of the changes necessary. If you just want to make that 50, then the changes will be less major. No matter what you read on here and try and do, I would advise everyone to back ideas up with real coaching. Coaches see things you cannot see or even see on video.

[jonny66]

The physics involved with snooker are very basic. One ball hits another, the fuller the hit, the more force is absorbed by the ball hit, therefore it moves more/faster. On a thinner hit the cue ball retains some momentum from the initial stroke, therefore any spin must interact with this momentum.

Hardly a thesis is it?

[tetricky]

No disrespect, but it's hardly a full description o the physics involved either.

...but that's not the point. A physics degree might help you make a mathematical model to explain what happens, and predict other outcomes if you vary certain factors. If you want to play snooker well, you're much better off practising.

[jonny66]

Dr. Dave already did it, he will also sell you a PHD in Billiards if you can do his challenges. http://billiards.colostate.edu/

[Byrom]

Many people on this forum who get into the physics of the game are normally just running on a load of old tat and it's easily skipped if people wish to ignore which I do as snooker is not a complicated as the lecturers on here make out, it's as easy and as hard as you make it. Enjoy the game and learn from practice.

Well again I agree with the straight talking Leo it seems.

Whilst there is physics involved as described by the Dr Dave USA money making machine there is and always will be an insatiable search for some magic bullet from many people wishing to improve their game - even I -

I read it all and I don't think this is it. Sure you can pick up bits of things from here there and everywhere but you can also over think it and confuse yourself and you run the risk of meddling too much and never developing a solid reliable and consistent technique that you need to play snooker.

Dr Dave's stuff and all these other theories might help some of these Americans play pool - but it detracts from snooker as you don't need to be as consistent or find a rhythm to play pool but to be good at snooker I think that you do.

So practice - work on technique - practice - develop a consistent pre shot routine - practice - set targets - practice - work on building a positive mental approach - practice - prepare well - practice - work on weakness - practice - do solo - practice -

have I mentioned how you improve at snooker?

[damienlch]

Let me hazard a guess... I'd say... practice?

Or more precisely, constructive practice. I'd agree that it's quite pointless if one were to go about it without any objective in mind and just pot random balls.

I've gone through many coaching materials, videos etc and while they're mostly helpful, I found that trying to duplicate them wholesale does not work well and ultimately, you have to find your own way.

There is no mystery to this game in the sense that it is laid bare on the table for all to see. But the game is also subtle; I think you have to develop a good understanding and feel of the shot to really string some balls together with consistency.

[Ramon]

Well again I agree with the straight talking Leo it seems.

Whilst there is physics involved as described by the Dr Dave USA money making machine there is and always will be an insatiable search for some magic bullet from many people wishing to improve their game - even I -

I read it all and I don't think this is it. Sure you can pick up bits of things from here there and everywhere but you can also over think it and confuse yourself and you run the risk of meddling too much and never developing a solid reliable and consistent technique that you need to play snooker.

Dr Dave's stuff and all these other theories might help some of these Americans play pool - but it detracts from snooker as you don't need to be as consistent or find a rhythm to play pool but to be good at snooker I think that you do.

So practice - work on technique - practice - develop a consistent pre shot routine - practice - set targets - practice - work on building a positive mental approach - practice - prepare well - practice - work on weakness - practice - do solo - practice -

have I mentioned how you improve at snooker?

Byrom, you can'nt be serious about this !! I am agree with All Those points you mentioned !! But, how in God's name can you practice on mental thing !! you sound like C Henry !! mental side of the game is just something you have it OR you do'nt have it !! simple as that !! which is why a pro dominating the game for years, while other pro can not even once win a tournament during his entire career !! believe me, is not the technique thing !!! these guys can all run a ton or 147 breaks during thr practice time on the table !!!! Most of them has payed a lot of money to a coach and still, can'nt master this aspect of the game !!
Sum people are mentally strong (compared to others) and can play the Game just as they do'nt care !! is something you're born with it Or not !!
if you really want to improve your game be realistic about yourself and try to accept your level. Cus That's the moment that you can start enjoying the game , my friend !!!
Unless u got something new to add , which in that case I'm glad to hear it !!!

[Byrom]

Byrom, you can'nt be serious about this !! I am agree with All Those points you mentioned !! But, how in God's name can you practice on mental thing !! you sound like C Henry !! mental side of the game is just something you have it OR you do'nt have it !! simple as that !! which is why a pro dominating the game for years, while other pro can not even once win a tournament during his entire career !! believe me, is not the technique thing !!! these guys can all run a ton or 147 breaks during thr practice time on the table !!!! Most of them has payed a lot of money to a coach and still, can'nt master this aspect of the game !!
Sum people are mentally strong (compared to others) and can play the Game just as they do'nt care !! is something you're born with it Or not !!
if you really want to improve your game be realistic about yourself and try to accept your level. Cus That's the moment that you can start enjoying the game , my friend !!!
Unless u got something new to add , which in that case I'm glad to hear it !!!

Well you have it you don't have it - you work on it to improve or you don't try and maybe don't want to - each to their own.
There is a whole industry of coaches most making a living but not a lot of money - although some do. The most successful ones in snooker all incorporate some of the mental side of the game now to help the people they see - and some players might not be aware they are doing it but they are - Not just Chris Henry who probably was the one who first started incorporating sports psychology into his snooker coaching to help Peter Ebdon and Jimmy White back in the day but other successful coaches such as Alan Trigg, PJ Nolan, Dell Hill, and Nik Barrow too among others.

So are they wrong - ?

Well you are right as there are some 'naturally' calm and skilled players that don't need it and ignorance is bliss for the more natural unaware perhaps as sometimes too much knowledge and thinking too deep can be a killer for a 'natural' type too if there is such a thing.

For the eternal knowledge searchers maybe it can help - I believe a persons personality is often reflected on the table - and I don't agree with the old often quoted saying that a leopard can't change its spots. That is the eternal pessimistic view.
If you believe that snooker is a percentage of the mental side and a percentage of skill on it then why not practice improving your skill on the table and practice the mental approach off it - if you do this is there is a chance that you can improve your game in both areas - yes - maybe - what's the harm in trying?

If you are a reflective person and you get angry you can recognise the triggers and work on not getting worked up
If you get nervous you can work on keeping calm
If you get negative and down on yourself you can change to being more positive and begin to see things with more optimism
If you are lazy you can talk to someone - get someone in your corner on your side to help motivate you or be there to talk to if you feel you need it.

If you cant do this then see someone who knows you and can help you. I HONESTLY think sports psychology is a process that can help some players improve and there are some very skilled people in this area - - Like I said Mr Henry is one coach that first started using his research in this area to help snooker players like Peter Ebdon and Jimmy White back in the day really and although he goes deep and left of field sometimes - he does know some stuff is very knowledgeable and there are key things he knows about the game - I believe he is himself a decent player who has had a number of 147's himself so he certainly is not one I would discredit.

Everyone can learn if they open there ears and mind to things - but a man that refuses to listen wont hear.

I feel it is important to know the person and know more about what makes them tick though - Send me a PM and I will - see if I can't motivate you - give it a go -I dare you.

P.s I like the sceptical Ramon!! You bring a lot of colour to the forum!!

90 per cent of the game is in the head some people say - I don't think it is that high personally but a good deal of it is.

“The quickest way to become an old dog is to stop learning new tricks.”

[tetricky]

The mind is a complex thing. It influences all sorts of things, from shot selection to state of mind in regards to executing the shot effectively. In whatever we do, the mind is a partner in the enterprise, whether it is decision making, controlling a physical action, or maintaining concentration. Snooker is a more mental game than a physical one (people with a range of body shapes, cue actions, and physical fitness, can all be a 'good' snooker player). Of course the mind can be developed and trained, and of course that can help.

If a player seeks help for the 'mental side of the game', and feels that it helps, then it almost certainly does. Even if the applied techniques are ineffective, it's likely that a player who thinks he is better for it, will be. Tricks of the mind....the smart player makes it work for them. It's no coincidence that top sportsmen, and top salesmen, tend to be open minded, optimistic sorts, who take on new ideas and embrace change. The oft quoted essential 'confidence' that makes a difference is just a state of mind. Of course state of mind without technique is likely to lead to a disconnect in anticipated and actual outcomes....which can have a deleterious effect on state of mind.

State of mind plays a key role in sporting success, and we live in the era where that has first really become widely understood - on a conscious level at least.

[Byrom]

The mind is a complex thing. It influences all sorts of things, from shot selection to state of mind in regards to executing the shot effectively. In whatever we do, the mind is a partner in the enterprise, whether it is decision making, controlling a physical action, or maintaining concentration. Snooker is a more mental game than a physical one (people with a range of body shapes, cue actions, and physical fitness, can all be a 'good' snooker player). Of course the mind can be developed and trained, and of course that can help.

If a player seeks help for the 'mental side of the game', and feels that it helps, then it almost certainly does. Even if the applied techniques are ineffective, it's likely that a player who thinks he is better for it, will be. Tricks of the mind....the smart player makes it work for them. It's no coincidence that top sportsmen, and top salesmen, tend to be open minded, optimistic sorts, who take on new ideas and embrace change. The oft quoted essential 'confidence' that makes a difference is just a state of mind. Of course state of mind without technique is likely to lead to a disconnect in anticipated and actual outcomes....which can have a deleterious effect on state of mind.

State of mind plays a key role in sporting success, and we live in the era where that has first really become widely understood - on a conscious level at least.

Nice post - whoever you are I like your thinking - clearly educated - insightful - intriguing.

[Master Blaster]

Byrom, you can'nt be serious about this !! I am agree with All Those points you mentioned !! But, how in God's name can you practice on mental thing !! you sound like C Henry !! mental side of the game is just something you have it OR you do'nt have it !! simple as that !! which is why a pro dominating the game for years, while other pro can not even once win a tournament during his entire career !! believe me, is not the technique thing !!! these guys can all run a ton or 147 breaks during thr practice time on the table !!!! Most of them has payed a lot of money to a coach and still, can'nt master this aspect of the game !!
Sum people are mentally strong (compared to others) and can play the Game just as they do'nt care !! is something you're born with it Or not !!
if you really want to improve your game be realistic about yourself and try to accept your level. Cus That's the moment that you can start enjoying the game , my friend !!!
Unless u got something new to add , which in that case I'm glad to hear it !!!

The mental approach is something the greatest of all time has been helped with Ramon, he didn't have it before and Steve Peters taught it to him. Bingo has also blossomed following some work on mental approach. Bingo's technique has improved, he's not cueing across the ball like ten years ago. His break building and long potting have improved. How can the most talented ever improve and how can a technically weak player become world champion?

It's called Coaching

Practice all you want, if you're only doing the things you've always done no improvement is likely. To improve you need to change. Change can come from advice here by TD or from a book or preferably from a coaching sessions. But change must come if people want to improve. People are scared of change; they like to think they can prosper with the tools they have. They are mostly wrong.

[tetricky]

I entirely agree with that. The trick is, knowing what is real, and what is snake oil.

There are some basics on the Frank Callan website fcsnooker that I try to use. I haven't mastered them all, and often fall back into bad habits...but when I'm concentrated and practice correctly it moves my game on (from 20-30's with the occasional 50-60 lightning strike, up to 40-50's with the occasional 60-80 lightning strike). I feel like if I drill and perfect those, I'll be able to play properly.

For those who don't know the thing I'm talking about, the short guidance covers:

The Grip, The Bridge, Bridge Arm and Cue, Arm, Sighting the Ball, The Stance, The Drill.

I don't feel I need much more than that...the rest is practice (and the occasional other set of eyes to confirm that I am doing it right).