It's body movement Jim, but not as we know it

[vmax4steve]

Just been watching Trump very closely in the Paul Hunter Classic and noticed that his body moves slightly to the right on every shot. We know that he offsets his address position to the right side of the cue ball, but somehow hits centre ball on the delivery stroke, this body movement must be what pivots his cue to strike centre ball.

I'm pretty sure there are many of us with the same body movement problem, can offsetting our address position cure this as it has with Trump. I know Terry will say not as his Nic Barrow method doesn't allow for anything other than straight cueing with no head or body movement, but we have seen with the Chisholm thread that there are other ways to play this game of ours, and no surprise that Terry disagrees with that as well; but if there is something inherently wrong with ones technique that cannot be turned around then maybe setting up the stance to allow for it is the answer.

One cannot say that it hasn't worked with Trump, what say you ??

[sealer]

Clearly it isnt working for him is it? He has a potential that is not being fulfilled properly. I have noticed it long time ago, it may be something to do with his vision, who knows. When he relaxes a bit it comes together for him. It happened last year in the final with Ronnie when he did not have anything to loose and stopped, thinking, compensating etc. that was his potential in full flow when he scored under 400 points in around 20min.

[j6uk]

i feel its all about where that white ball goes on impact an if it was intended it to go in that direction, thats if what you see from trump on the screen is true. you mentioned terry, well tels tchnique is an im sure he would be the first to agree not ideal, but its never stopped him from potting balls off the lamp shades

[Ramon]

Just been watching Trump very closely in the Paul Hunter Classic and noticed that his body moves slightly to the right on every shot. We know that he offsets his address position to the right side of the cue ball, but somehow hits centre ball on the delivery stroke, this body movement must be what pivots his cue to strike centre ball.

I'm pretty sure there are many of us with the same body movement problem, can offsetting our address position cure this as it has with Trump. I know Terry will say not as his Nic Barrow method doesn't allow for anything other than straight cueing with no head or body movement, but we have seen with the Chisholm thread that there are other ways to play this game of ours, and no surprise that Terry disagrees with that as well; but if there is something inherently wrong with ones technique that cannot be turned around then maybe setting up the stance to allow for it is the answer.

One cannot say that it hasn't worked with Trump, what say you ??

That does'nt happens with every shot Vmax !! most of the time this happens with power shots he's playing !'
JT is Not the only one !! S Lee was a player who had No body movmnt AT ALL !!
But again , I would'nt comper the cue action of JT with S Lee ( ! even not in my dream lol , as he was a master of cue action ) .
and he does'nt move his body to deliver the cue stright !! yes , he offsets his address position !! I do agree with u on that one !!

[mikeyd100]

What about Selby and his side to side head movement, thats a strange one too.

[Terry Davidson]

vmax:

What would be the logic in having 2 things to coordinate when without movement and addressing the cueball to the right you could have ZERO things to coordinate (in that area). I believe the right way to go is to have as few moving parts in the technique as possible but I know that's hard to achieve as J6 says about me. I teach it but a lot of times I can't do it.

These are the things that will affect a pro as he gets older and loses some of his hand-eye coordination. I believe this is what happened with Hendry however that said, I wouldn't want to take Hendry on in a money match even at his advanced age and lowered ability.

[j6uk]

vmax:

What would be the logic in having 2 things to coordinate when without movement and addressing the cueball to the right you could have ZERO things to coordinate (in that area). I believe the right way to go is to have as few moving parts in the technique as possible but I know that's hard to achieve as J6 says about me. I teach it but a lot of times I can't do it.
an im sure you find it very awkward to try an teach something you cant do

These are the things that will affect a pro as he gets older and loses some of his hand-eye coordination. I believe this is what happened with Hendry however that said, I wouldn't want to take Hendry on in a money match even at his advanced age and lowered ability.

but youd agree, none of these things have anything to do with technique or abillity but with mind/body fatigue, desire and off the table stuff

[GeordieDS]

I find this sort of thing fascinating, we all know you need to keep still and it should be easy but to me it's nigh on impossible as you have to be set up perfectly, my main problem is i don't trust what my eyes are telling me so i compensate for it and do what i think should be right and either rattle the pot or just lose the white completely, it drives me mad

[Terry Davidson]

but youd agree, none of these things have anything to do with technique or abillity but with mind/body fatigue, desire and off the table stuff

Hendry did have an extra movement in his technique which was his elbow dropping into his back on the backswing and then coming up to over the cue on his delivery. I believe he lost some of his ability to coordinate this perfectly as he got a little older. If you take a look at Hendry in his prime in the 90's you can see this quite plainly. Probably some of the off the table stuff in his life had some effect on his killer instinct too though.

I don't find it awkward as I can show a student what I think he should be doing but as for myself when under pressure in a match on our very slow tables over here I can't do it consistently because of the power required for almost every shot. As for the subject of this string I do stay very still on the backswing/delivery but my problems are my backswing is too short and quick and also I jab at the cueball sometimes as a result of that. I found that if I really slow down my backswing to where I feel it's a bit too slow I can overcome these problems so I'm working on that right now. The slower backswing also makes the transition from backswing to delivery a lot smoother and therefore I get much better results, but if I had a discernible rear pause I think that transition would be a lot better.

[tedisbill]

I don't find it awkward as I can show a student what I think he should be doing but as for myself when under pressure in a match on our very slow tables over here I can't do it consistently because of the power required for almost every shot.

What can't you do because of the power required?

[Terry Davidson]

What can't you do because of the power required?

It's a sad fact that as you go up in power you go down in accuracy. It could be any number of reasons from gripping the cue too tight too early, getting the shoulder into the shot for more power, accelerating the cue too rapidly or clutching the cue and stopping it too early. You can experiment yourself if you want proof...play 10 long blues at lower pace (your most accurate pace) and then do 10 more where you attempt to screw the cueball back to the baulkline. With most players capable of making 8-9 out of 10 at lower pace that will drop down to 4-5 out of 10 with higher power.

A longer backswing goes a long way to overcoming this along with a smooth transition from backswing to delivery (what Nic Barrow calls 'changing gears'). The longer backswing will allow a player to develop more power while keeping it smooth.

[tedisbill]

Yeah, that's specifically why I asked you Terry. Surely if you're playing on slow tables, you want the complete opposite action to yours. You want to be nice and long and move the white around easier.

You were suggesting that because you play on slow tables, you have to stay short and punchy. But surely it's the complete opposite?

[Terry Davidson]

[QUOTE=tedisbill;853260]Yeah, that's specifically why I asked you Terry. Surely if you're playing on slow tables, you want the complete opposite action to yours. You want to be nice and long and move the white around easier.

You were suggesting that because you play on slow tables, you have to stay short and punchy. But surely it's the complete opposite?

I thought I was pretty clear with this statement 'A longer backswing goes a long way to overcoming this along with a smooth transition from backswing to delivery (what Nic Barrow calls 'changing gears'). The longer backswing will allow a player to develop more power while keeping it smooth.'

I've been working on getting a longer and slower backswing in order to be more accurate on these slow tables. I'm even letting my table get slower by not brushing, blocking or ironing my 6811 Club cloth so I can practice using more power.

[Leo]

I've been working on getting a longer and slower backswing in order to be more accurate on these slow tables. I'm even letting my table get slower by not brushing, blocking or ironing my 6811 Club cloth so I can practice using more power.

Sounds like you need a coach

[j6uk]

Hendry did have an extra movement in his technique which was his elbow dropping into his back on the backswing and then coming up to over the cue on his delivery. I believe he lost some of his ability to coordinate this perfectly as he got a little older. If you take a look at Hendry in his prime in the 90's you can see this quite plainly. Probably some of the off the table stuff in his life had some effect on his killer instinct too though.
i believe an im sure hed agree stephen had a better cue action after his so called prime, when the likes of the class of 92 were getting stronger. so the only ability he lost was dealing with the strength an depth of the new players
I don't find it awkward as I can show a student what I think he should be doing but as for myself when under pressure in a match on our very slow tables over here I can't do it consistently because of the power required for almost every shot. As for the subject of this string I do stay very still on the backswing/delivery but my problems are my backswing is too short and quick and also I jab at the cueball sometimes as a result of that. I found that if I really slow down my backswing to where I feel it's a bit too slow I can overcome these problems so I'm working on that right now. The slower backswing also makes the transition from backswing to delivery a lot smoother and therefore I get much better results, but if I had a discernible rear pause I think that transition would be a lot better.

so the above is all about timing of the white, an with such a bad technique its hard to develop good timing consistently