Trouble keeping cue horizontal or parallel to table (with video)

[rx50cent]

As you can see my cue is moving up and down quite a lot and I can't wrap my head around how a cue can move parallel to the table since the hand is moving in a circular motion back and forth with shoulder locked. What do I need to do during back swing to keep the hand from "lifting" up the cue? I grab the cue at the very end is that a problem? Also how is my forum in general? Help is greatly appreciated!

http://perfec.com/snooker/Video1.mp4
http://perfec.com/snooker/Video2.mp4
http://perfec.com/snooker/Video3.mp4
http://perfec.com/snooker/Video4.mp4

[OmaMiesta]

Looks like your grip hand is a little too tight perhaps. Try loosening it a bit and maybe even open your back fingers slightly on the backswing. You can also try dropping your elbow on the backswing but I think its most likely that your grip hand is too tight. I like to exaggerate how loose I have my grip hand because you usually tend to tighten it up naturally anyway so its a bit of a compensation.

[rx50cent]

Looks like your grip hand is a little too tight perhaps. Try loosening it a bit and maybe even open your back fingers slightly on the backswing. You can also try dropping your elbow on the backswing but I think its most likely that your grip hand is too tight. I like to exaggerate how loose I have my grip hand because you usually tend to tighten it up naturally anyway so its a bit of a compensation.

Doesn't dropping the elbow means moving of the shoulder?

[tetricky]

I don't consciously drop the shoulder, it adds variables. Grip predominantly with the thumb and forefinger and in the backswing position have the other fingers laying alongside the butt, but not grasping it. As the cue comes through pivot the grip around the thumb and forefinger to keep the cue horizontal. As you push through the fingers will gather around (and under) the butt and help you firm up the grip into the strike.

It's how I do it.

[tomwalker147]

I think your current stance makes it difficult to get that parallel cueing angle. Looks similar to a friend of mine who generates alot of power but is nowhere near parallel on his shots. He's a decent player by the way so if changing your stance is too uncomfortable don't make yourself do it.

I made a conscious decision to sort my stance out 3/4 years ago and have improved greatly since then. You're right handed so get your right foot pointing toward the line of aim.

You actually stay incredibly still on impact which is pretty impressive!

[Terry Davidson]

Looks like your grip hand is a little too tight perhaps. Try loosening it a bit and maybe even open your back fingers slightly on the backswing. You can also try dropping your elbow on the backswing but I think its most likely that your grip hand is too tight. I like to exaggerate how loose I have my grip hand because you usually tend to tighten it up naturally anyway so its a bit of a compensation.

Your solution is exactly what Oma has said here. On a long backswing no matter how loose the grip is you will still need to drop the elbow about 3-4cm in order to keep the cue parallel, but it's also necessary to allow the grip (the back 3 fingers) to be sort of pushed out of the way by the butt of the cue so they are not actually gripping the butt, so the only 'hold' on the cue is the forefinger and thumb and that should be the upper inside of both. (the back 3 fingers should stay in contact with the butt though, just not curled around it at the end of the backswing - i.e. - tip of baby finger just touching the side of the butt.

Get on a table and cue along the baulkline and concentrate on figuring out how to keep the cue parallel (or nearly so) with the bed of the table. Of course the height of the cushion gets in the way so the cue cannot be truly parallel but it should be 1in or less above the cushion and should remain that same distance throughout the stroke.

The thing against dropping the elbow is meant for the DELIVERY and NOT during the longer backswing, where the elbow MUST drop at least a bit to keep the cue parallel.

The last thing I want to say is your stance is not the best for snooker (even though it looks somewhat like Joe Davis). Try and get the toes more into a straight line 90* to the line of the shot. They do not have to be in a straight line but the left foot should be no more than about 12cm ahead of the right. This is called 'getting a more square stance' however if you are able to do this remember with this stance you have to swing the hips to the left so your grip hand has clearance from your hip and trousers.

[rx50cent]

Your solution is exactly what Oma has said here. On a long backswing no matter how loose the grip is you will still need to drop the elbow about 3-4cm in order to keep the cue parallel, but it's also necessary to allow the grip (the back 3 fingers) to be sort of pushed out of the way by the butt of the cue so they are not actually gripping the butt, so the only 'hold' on the cue is the forefinger and thumb and that should be the upper inside of both. (the back 3 fingers should stay in contact with the butt though, just not curled around it at the end of the backswing - i.e. - tip of baby finger just touching the side of the butt.

Get on a table and cue along the baulkline and concentrate on figuring out how to keep the cue parallel (or nearly so) with the bed of the table. Of course the height of the cushion gets in the way so the cue cannot be truly parallel but it should be 1in or less above the cushion and should remain that same distance throughout the stroke.

The thing against dropping the elbow is meant for the DELIVERY and NOT during the longer backswing, where the elbow MUST drop at least a bit to keep the cue parallel.

The last thing I want to say is your stance is not the best for snooker (even though it looks somewhat like Joe Davis). Try and get the toes more into a straight line 90* to the line of the shot. They do not have to be in a straight line but the left foot should be no more than about 12cm ahead of the right. This is called 'getting a more square stance' however if you are able to do this remember with this stance you have to swing the hips to the left so your grip hand has clearance from your hip and trousers.

Thanks everyone! Terry I'm sorry but I didn't fully understand when you say "The thing against dropping the elbow is meant for the DELIVERY and NOT during the longer backswing, where the elbow MUST drop at least a bit to keep the cue parallel.". Correct me if I'm wrong, I feel what you mean is to drop the elbow only during the backswing, but not during delivery. But the problem is if I drop my elbow as my cue moves backward for the backswing, my elbow must then be "lifted" as the cue moves forward for the delivery, thus creating all kinds of movement on the shoulder?

Also when you say "get the toes more into a straight line 90* to the line of the shot" I suppose that's for my right foot? But tomwalker147's suggestion is to point the right foot towards the aim instead of 90*. I must be confused hope you can clarify. thanks a bunch!

[tetricky]

Try not thinking about your shoulder....use the grip to keep the cue straight and parallel. You play with your grip...not your shoulder.

[Ramon]

Thanks everyone! Terry I'm sorry but I didn't fully understand when you say "The thing against dropping the elbow is meant for the DELIVERY and NOT during the longer backswing, where the elbow MUST drop at least a bit to keep the cue parallel.". Correct me if I'm wrong, I feel what you mean is to drop the elbow only during the backswing, but not during delivery. But the problem is if I drop my elbow as my cue moves backward for the backswing, my elbow must then be "lifted" as the cue moves forward for the delivery, thus creating all kinds of movement on the shoulder?

Also when you say "get the toes more into a straight line 90* to the line of the shot" I suppose that's for my right foot? But tomwalker147's suggestion is to point the right foot towards the aim instead of 90*. I must be confused hope you can clarify. thanks a bunch!

I'm sure Terry will come back with his replay ( as he always does ) !!
in the meantime ,. you might wanna take a 30 minutes of your time and watch this video !! look what he is doing regarding etc. Using grip / elbow movmnt / shoulder / power / ( especially his timeing ) / and ...... during his cue action !!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgq-fvQKt7Y

[Byrom]

I have trouble staying vertical - depending on my alcohol consumption on snooker night

[Ramon]

I have trouble staying vertical - depending on my alcohol consumption on snooker night

Trouble ???
It's a gift !!

[Terry Davidson]

Thanks everyone! Terry I'm sorry but I didn't fully understand when you say "The thing against dropping the elbow is meant for the DELIVERY and NOT during the longer backswing, where the elbow MUST drop at least a bit to keep the cue parallel.". Correct me if I'm wrong, I feel what you mean is to drop the elbow only during the backswing, but not during delivery. But the problem is if I drop my elbow as my cue moves backward for the backswing, my elbow must then be "lifted" as the cue moves forward for the delivery, thus creating all kinds of movement on the shoulder?

Also when you say "get the toes more into a straight line 90* to the line of the shot" I suppose that's for my right foot? But tomwalker147's suggestion is to point the right foot towards the aim instead of 90*. I must be confused hope you can clarify. thanks a bunch!

Dropping the elbow on the backswing is not a problem and you are right in that it must come up that inch or so at the start of the delivery. Watch any of the pros who have a long backswing (almost all of them, like John Higgins) and you will see the elbow drops near the end of their longer backswings.

As for your feet...I DID NOT mean the feet should be pointed out 90* from the line of aim. I meant if you lay a cue on the floor across the toes of both your feet then that cue would be approximately 90* to the line of aim. I recommend the actual feet themselves (individually) should be pointed just outside the line of aim which takes the strain off the ankle and knee joints (however some people prefer to aim the feet down the line of aim as it feels like it makes them tighter and more stable however I doubt this as pointing them outwards a bit gives even more stability).

Right now you have what is called a 'boxer's stance' meaning the right foot is will behind the left foot (Joe Davis used this). Modern players will have the feet almost parallel and most have the straight leg foot directly under the grip hand when in the address position and then the other foot slightly ahead of that. How much ahead on the bent leg foot is a matter of personal comfort and choice.

[GeordieDS]

I'm sure Terry will come back with his replay ( as he always does ) !!
in the meantime ,. you might wanna take a 30 minutes of your time and watch this video !! look what he is doing regarding etc. Using grip / elbow movmnt / shoulder / power / ( especially his timeing ) / and ...... during his cue action !!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgq-fvQKt7Y

I remember him winning his first ranking tournament, the way he played in the final nobody could have beat him that day he was awesome

[Ramon]

I remember him winning his first ranking tournament, the way he played in the final nobody could have beat him that day he was awesome

yeah, he was a good player !! no doubt about that !! I think it is a good lesson for every player to watch carefully what he does during his cue action !!

[jrc750]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pgq-fvQKt7Y

That shot at 2 minutes where Joe says it's the shot of the week, surely the shot of all time ??? amazing