CTE in snooker

[jamesg19851]

Yes that's right. I've just been playing English 8 ball pool. The white is slightly smaller than the object ball. Yes, I guess that might make a difference.

On a side note they changed the balls tonight, new blue and yellow balls, new aramith they seemed to play nicely.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Be afraid? Why? -

I will join this forum and ask to speak with this Stan guy - thanks for the link - much appreciated.

Why? Because all sorts of crazy lurks there.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I have come across things - geometry principles - Dr Dave and stuff and thought wow these Americans don't half try and sell you a line.
However a closed book never gets read and what harm could it do - There are players out there that have searched all these things and more - trust me I know they would go from one coach to the next to the next and pick up bits from here and bits from there and everywhere.

This system sounds complicated but perhaps it is the language of explaining it that's hard for many - this shouting John Barton guy was a bit unwatchable and his technique clearly pants but then I watched him make a dozen or so angled pots down the rail and thought wow if this geezer can pot shots like that imagine what a guy with decent technique could do using it?

its not that hard really - it is easy actually these people just don't translate it all that well . all the shots kind of become one. Its just a different way to visualise the shot. Your potting angle is picked out at the white - thinking in curves - rather than at the object ball and it encourages you to cue straight through centre ball at a definite contact point - rather than guessing as you do with the ghost ball type theory. So anyway as these things go I think it could be adapted to snooker if not in full then in part and maybe is already in some quarters?

I don't know enough about it to advocate it myself mind and have only tried it out once and admit it took a while to click as I got it all wrong but it did click and it surprised me as it is totally different to anything I had done before but it does work.

I realise you're new to all this, and it takes a while to wrap your head around things, but the notion that dr dave is trying to sell you a line whilst stan shuffet is not is one of the funniest things I've EVER read!

[alabadi]

I was only doing this CTE thing for a laugh but it is not a myth man it worked - as far as I could tell it did anyway and by the end of the night I was having a bit of fun with it - it certainly did enough to warrant further investigation anyway I think.

I stumbled on this system a few years ago when I was still learning about sighting . initially same as you Byrom it worked and I thought I had found the solution. however a few sessions later it started to crumble. especially on mid to long range shots.

snooker table pockets are much tighter than that on pool tables so the margins are much smaller.

if you look carefully at some of the videos of different guys advocating this they are not consistent with what they are doing they are moving around and in cases steering the cueball. and they always play shots the are about 1 foot from the pocket and they are no more than a couple of feet away.

a lot of shots hit the jaws but on a pool table they go in. most of them shots would stay out on a snooker table.

in my opinion its a gimmick, the initial success is a placebo effect and soon disappears.

pivoting into a shot will not help consistency because we can't measure how much to pivot and we would need to adjust it depending how far we are from the OB each time.

i'm going to stick with minimal movement, trying find the line, walk in and drop down on it , well if I can see it anyway...lol

[Byrom]

I realise you're new to all this, and it takes a while to wrap your head around things, but the notion that dr dave is trying to sell you a line whilst stan shuffet is not is one of the funniest things I've EVER read!

I did not mean what you imply about DR Dave - I think you misunderstand.

I meant some of these people that come up with various aiming systems in US are selling you a line - I thought I would try out this one and even if it adds a few shots or a bit of something to your game then nothing lost eh.
I think there is something in this that merits a bit more research for m as I enjoyed having a laugh with it and was potting quite well.

Its something different. Have you tried it - or are you not a fan?

[tetricky]

......i'm going to stick with minimal movement, trying find the line, walk in and drop down on it , well if I can see it anyway...lol

I'm with you....when I look at people doing that, for different shots, it seems to me that they are making an experienced based adjustment. There is nothing inherent in the method that has you playing down the line. It is pure *guesswork* how much to pivot, how much to offset. Plus there seems to be an extra level of complication if you offset (for side - "english"), before you pivot. How much you pivot would seem to entirely determine the aim, and there is nothing that allows you to determine that.

Sure you can pot a few balls on a pool table like that. There is such a high pocket to cushion ratio in pool that shouldn't be a major surprise. I do not see it having application in the higher precision and consistency required for snooker. I'm working hard to eliminate unwanted side from my game. I don't want the risk of more.

I'll pass.

[Byrom]

I stumbled on this system a few years ago when I was still learning about sighting . initially same as you Byrom it worked and I thought I had found the solution. however a few sessions later it started to crumble. especially on mid to long range shots.

snooker table pockets are much tighter than that on pool tables so the margins are much smaller.

if you look carefully at some of the videos of different guys advocating this they are not consistent with what they are doing they are moving around and in cases steering the cueball. and they always play shots the are about 1 foot from the pocket and they are no more than a couple of feet away.

a lot of shots hit the jaws but on a pool table they go in. most of them shots would stay out on a snooker table.

in my opinion its a gimmick, the initial success is a placebo effect and soon disappears.

pivoting into a shot will not help consistency because we can't measure how much to pivot and we would need to adjust it depending how far we are from the OB each time.

i'm going to stick with minimal movement, trying find the line, walk in and drop down on it , well if I can see it anyway...lol

Great post - yes I agree the margins are smaller at snooker and I also agree these guys doing it are moving around a lot and this goes against the things we are taught to do at snooker or we dismiss it because we see this terrible technique and think wow there is another dumb ass American pool player potting balls on a huge massive pocket pool table - put him on a snooker table and he would fall apart.

I think that you don't need to move on the shot to use this technique you can adapt it into a snooker technique - It would be interesting to see E Reyes play snooker or that Canadian guy - I will be watching a bit more closely to see if there are one or two others.
I agree it don't work at distance all that well because you cant measure the balls visually equal at distance edge to edge? - maybe its the line I am getting wrong - I am missing something there too I think - I did say I was mixing the technique up with modern normal snooker play though and its just an experiment - only tried it once - I am going to give it more consideration and find out a bit more. Please don't chastise me anyone I am only learning it to see if there are any benefits.

As for measuring the pivot - well I think that you can - if you can recognise a quarter ball - half ball - 3 quarter ball shot - then you can visualise the same on the white and the object ball and pick out a aiming point on the OB just the same whilst making each shot a centre ball strike on the white after the pivot. - wow that does not sound good does it - I am trying to explain this and it sounds rubbish.

Basically refer back to that simple video - notice he visualises edge to edge from centre ball for simple shots and for a finer cut he would visualise the edge of the white onto the object ball for a half ball pot or quarter ball that's what I was doing.
If you can play snooker to any decent standard and spot a half ball quarter ball three quarter ball then this actually works quite well.

At distance its more 90 - 90 back to normal technique as you cant measure the balls visually in the same way to aid your perception of the shot really but I might be missing something as I have only just started looking into it and I pot ok at distance so this is where I kind of went back to normal.

Anyway its bloody hard to put into words I need some help here so off to see if Stan will come on this thread and define his method a little more.

[luke-h]

I was just thinking about this whilst watching judd trump....do you think that could be why he looks to be cueing off straight only to come back to centre ball on stroke....hmmmm

[Byrom]

I was just thinking about this whilst watching judd trump....do you think that could be why he looks to be cueing off straight only to come back to centre ball on stroke....hmmmm

Maybe - because that's exactly what it looked liked when I was doing it myself - I will look a bit more closely now - maybe it just looks that way - maybe they don't know how to explain it or maybe the do it naturally- or maybe not> suspicion - These pro's and their secrets eh geeez.

Might be wrong here but from memory - Murphy does a number of off centre waggles before driving thro straight - Ronnie is a bit across the ball, jimmy White cues in a different blob before going thro - mmmm

I'm going to check a few video's - interesting

[alabadi]

just watch this guy and notice how his cue never goes through straight. especially around 2.28 when he suppose to do it very slow. he is deflecting the cueball to make the pot depending on which direction the OB is going.

god almighty on the star tables I play on he would be lucky to make one pot

here is the link

https://youtu.be/m4SEJz7PujM

[Byrom]

yeah I don't think he is a good example to watch for the technique in terms of how he explains it or his actual technique in playing the game - although I did see him make a dozen or so hard angled cut shots down the rail - but he says he is not a player so give the guy a break he's having fun.

You have tried the principle out - you should know it can be applied in a more subtle manner. I was on a big pocket table trying it out so you might be right - I will try it out again tonight and also later when I get on a proper match table too n report back and as for AZ billiards - that site is confusing I think I have to wait for them to turn on the account I can log on but not post? It looks mostly about pool though.

[alabadi]

It is similar to that old Guy Roy Chisholm who has them videos on youtube "snooker secrets". he advocates having an offset and then twisting into the shot.

I've tried them all, and on some shots it can work and on others it doesn't , i'm sure there are some out there that swear blind it works for them and good luck to them.

I just feel in snooker its all about consistency, improving at this game is very hard as we have all found out. so with a consistent setup that you can repeat over and over and over is essential , otherwise how can you know when you miss which is it, you grip, stance, approach, etc, etc. when everything is solid you will know if you didn't perform one correctly, however if every time you take a shot you are estimating or guessing then everything is up in the air and you won't have a clue what was the reasons.

this is my opinion and I am not here to rubbish any new innovation and ideas, god knows I have tried them all. I just think after all the trial and error I have been through I have come to these conclusions for my game, which is still no where near good enough yet, but I am now going in the right direction.

[vmax4steve]

I was just thinking about this whilst watching judd trump....do you think that could be why he looks to be cueing off straight only to come back to centre ball on stroke....hmmmm

Trump has a slight body movement to his right on the delivery stroke, meaning his cue pivots to the left on the strike, that's why he always offsets the tip of his cue to the right of where he actually wants to make contact with the cue ball. When playing centre ball he addresses to the right, for right hand side he addresses outside the cue ball and for left hand side he addresses centre ball.

It's nothing to do with a sighting technique, simply counteracts his body movement on the stroke.

As for that video Byrom posted, jeeezzzzzzzz, just how easy do you want it, no more than a foot away from a five inch wide pocket, nothing in it as far as I can see, not even helping side is it.

Goes against everything I believe in to be honest.

[Byrom]

It is similar to that old Guy Roy Chisholm who has them videos on youtube "snooker secrets". he advocates having an offset and then twisting into the shot.

I've tried them all, and on some shots it can work and on others it doesn't , i'm sure there are some out there that swear blind it works for them and good luck to them.

I just feel in snooker its all about consistency, improving at this game is very hard as we have all found out. so with a consistent setup that you can repeat over and over and over is essential , otherwise how can you know when you miss which is it, you grip, stance, approach, etc, etc. when everything is solid you will know if you didn't perform one correctly, however if every time you take a shot you are estimating or guessing then everything is up in the air and you won't have a clue what was the reasons.

this is my opinion and I am not here to rubbish any new innovation and ideas, god knows I have tried them all. I just think after all the trial and error I have been through I have come to these conclusions for my game, which is still no where near good enough yet, but I am now going in the right direction.

When you take a quarter ball shot on do you not guess? you cant see the back of the ball - when you imagine a ghost ball do you not guess there is no ball there? Can you see the contact point all the time or do you work it out.

It comes down I think to visualisation and technique - if it helps it helps - who is Roy Chisholm?

[Byrom]

Trump has a slight body movement to his right on the delivery stroke, meaning his cue pivots to the left on the strike, that's why he always offsets the tip of his cue to the right of where he actually wants to make contact with the cue ball. When playing centre ball he addresses to the right, for right hand side he addresses outside the cue ball and for left hand side he addresses centre ball.

It's nothing to do with a sighting technique, simply counteracts his body movement on the stroke.

As for that video Byrom posted, jeeezzzzzzzz, just how easy do you want it, no more than a foot away from a five inch wide pocket, nothing in it as far as I can see, not even helping side is it.

Goes against everything I believe in to be honest.

Yes it was easy but the guy was just explaining the principle he is not meant to be showing off - I thought the same thing actually but I tried it and it worked and I could visualise the shot easily by the end of the night - are you sure about Trump and others, maybe they do know about these things?

My advice try it for a night yourselves see what you think before you slate it - its weird to get your head around at first but gets easier - I had a good laugh with it and am going to try it out for a few weeks or so just for an experiment.