3/4 pink

[jrc750]

apologies in advance as this is not everyone's cup of tea but here is my reasoning for applying a grid of thirds rather than quarters.




a is the angle between the incoming white and the line of the pot. For a 3/4 ball this is known to be 14.5 degrees, for 1/2 ball this is 30 degrees. I'll come back to this later.

The line from corner pocket to opposite middle runs through the centres of white and pink and is at 45 degrees to the side cushion.

X is what we want to find - how far along the cushion from the pink spot do we place the white to make a particular pot.

A + b = 45 deg.

Rather than work in mm it makes some sense to use a grid much like j6 has to keep the numbers simpler. A full size table is, according to wikipedia, 3569 mm x 1778 mm which for 52.5mm balls make it 68 balls x 34 balls to within a decimal place so the pink spot is almost exactly 17 balls from top and side cushions. So take y to be 17 (balls).

Still with me?

Since white and pink at contact are at 45 degrees and their centres are 1 ball diameter apart (a little trig) says y1 and x1, which are the offsets of the white centre from the pink are at 1/sqrt(2) which is 0.707.

X1 = y1 = 1/sqrt(2)

the triangle with angle b has sides y2 and x2 and you can say x2/y2 = tan(b) (again, just trigonometry).

Putting this all together to find x gives this...

X = x1 + x2.

We get x1 from above as

x1 = 1/sqrt(2), so now,

x = 1/sqrt(2) + x2.

But x2 = y2 tan(b), so

x = 1/sqrt(2) + y2 tan(b)

also, b = 45 - a, so

x = 1/sqrt(2) + y2 tan(45 - a).

Y2 = y - y1 = 17 - (1/sqrt(2))

so finally,

x = 1/sqrt(2) + (17 - 1/sqrt(2)) tan (45 - a)

for any angle, a, we can work out how many balls along from the pink line to set up the shot.

Plug in a = 14.5 deg and you get x = 10.3 (balls). With 17 balls between pink and blue that puts it at 10.3/17 or 61% of the way towards the blue.

Plug in a = 30 deg and you get x = 5.1 (balls). Again, 5.1/17 is 30% of the way along the cushion.

So it isn't exactly the 1/3 and 2/3s that i estimated over the table and perhaps you could set this up by making it 2/3 of the way along the cushion and rolling it back one ball or half a ball. But i do believe it's closer than it is on the grid with quarters.

The shot i had a problem with was the 3/4 ball pink at half way between pink and blue on the cushion. Using this formula would make x = 8.5 balls and the potting angle comes out as 19.5 degrees which is thinner than a 3/4 ball.

are you for real ????????????????????????

[sealer]

The three basic shots in question: 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 is a very good start to learning positional play. Providing you can set it. I would find useful the outcome of this thread. I have been learning the game by myself but want to take it further and learning positional play starting from setting these 3 standard shots and experimenting with where the cue ball goes plain ball, tops and deep screw. In reality snooker is everything in between but for learning I think it is a great place to start.

Let say I want to start from 3/4 high black about a foot away with the cue ball. As far as I am concerned I should be able to place the cue ball anywhere on the table. I can just set the shot roughly or use j6 grid(that is being worked out right now) to have it where it should be.


It is jusy a useful reference(one they use on tv as well) to be able to say for example:

This 3/4 high blue is perfect to go into the pack

Or

This 3/4 low blue when hit with perfect stun will take you between this and this colour


Etc

When you learn you can either just go for it or have some references and structures that will helo you on the way.

Lets say you have spend considerable hours on 3/4 black experimenting with the cue ball paths, trying to send it into all possible directions including placing colours around the black and hitting them. Next time you have a shot that is very close to that 3/4 black on any ball you will be able to play it with more confidence and have a lot better idea of how to hit the white in order to send it on the chose path.

As I said snooker is anything in beetwen these shots but it is a good place to start. But where to put the white? :-)

[markz]

that black he was struggling with was 1/2 ball. good players who know there 3/4 and 1/2 ball blacks off the spot hardly ever miss them

I agree J6 and think your doing a great job with your videos and giving your experience. It's just most snooker players are not good players so keeping it simple helps. Good players wouldn't even give 1/2 ball a thought, it's in their memory so just get down and pot the ball.

[sealer]

are you for real ????????????????????????

Thank you for your post that is motivating to further discussion and exploration of the topic. He clearly is using mathematical aproach to help and set out position of white ball placement for 3 standard snooker shots relative to placement of the pink ball with precision that can be later replicated on a snooker table using simple instructions. You don't have to understand any of that to appreciate the outcome. You could then even use j6 training videos to practice some of these standard shots that he plays in his videos. J6 could confirm or make his setups more precise and learn something useing these as well. You can of course read something you have no clue about and dismiss work of a member by being very polite and motivating.

[vmax4steve]

What j6 is doing is showing the natural angle the cue ball takes from certain positions on the table, whether it's 3/4 or 5/8 is of no consequence, you can set the balls up as he shows them, play the shots and learn where the cue ball will end up, vary the angles a bit and learn even more, apply a little stun, screw and side and learn even more.

Keep it up j6, lots of members are learning here, including me, I'm one of those 70+ breakers who is on the cushion far too often.

[j6uk]

I agree J6 and think your doing a great job with your videos and giving your experience. It's just most snooker players are not good players so keeping it simple helps. Good players wouldn't even give 1/2 ball a thought, it's in their memory so just get down and pot the ball.

i was just commenting on the link you put up.. as for the info its not mine its been passed down and im just trying to expanding on it, though im still at the beginning. but yeah many players would be surprised to hear that all that so called subconsious play that they see on the box is actually a wealth of studied practiced craft
you get an insight when listening to the comentators, as they know what angle the player has where ever the white is on the table, because theyve done the studies and can read the table like a book

[sealer]

The thing is that he precisley tells you what shot he sets, how he shoots and where it goes. That is why in order to replicate and use the knowledge easly you need the common reference of these 3 particular shots. Otherwise it cannot be used easly. It only gives you a concept that most understands anyway.

[itsnoteasy]

For me the trouble with those diagrams is they are all potting into the middle of the bag, you won't pot a quarter ball cut shot aiming at the centre of the pocket, so the quarter ball you have set up is really an eighth, and the same with your half ball, it will be too thick if aimed at the centre of the pocket, maths and trig are ok but get on the table and you will learn where to aim in the pocket.

[sealer]

it is not about the potting. They will establish locations of white ball for every colour and each of the 3 standard shots. Then we can have J6 carrying on with the knowledge series for particular colours. You will be able to set the shots on your table using simple sketch or instructions and learn.

[itsnoteasy]

Sealer it is about the pot, a three quarter ball shot or half ball,is how much coverage of the object ball the cue ball has to pot the ball, now if you set a half ball pot up for the middle of the pocket you will miss it thick, there is no argument about that, call it cut induced throw call it not aiming at the right part of the pocket, call it what you want, you aim a half ball shot for the centre of the pocket like these diagrams you won't pot the ball, or am I wrong?

[sealer]

This is not about the pot. It is about setting the approximate 3/4 shot. Once the position of the white is known we can discuss different positional shots. No one will teach you to pot a ball over the internet. You will be expected to pot it yourselve.

[markz]

Sealer it is about the pot, a three quarter ball shot or half ball,is how much coverage of the object ball the cue ball has to pot the ball, now if you set a half ball pot up for the middle of the pocket you will miss it thick, there is no argument about that, call it cut induced throw call it not aiming at the right part of the pocket, call it what you want, you aim a half ball shot for the centre of the pocket like these diagrams you won't pot the ball, or am I wrong?

Even then, saying its not about potting, if you miss the pot you are not learning the angle for position as the cue ball will go off thinner or thicker.

[itsnoteasy]

If you set them up like the diagram you will miss, so what's the point in all the maths if it's wrong?

[j6uk]

as much as im showing the path of the cb, it is about the pot, the angle of the shot, and how it relates to the cushion.
so if the maths is wrong its pointless.
and what iv see of the well presented and im sure intended debunking mathamatics so far, its significantly incorrect

but the math is logical and looks so good on paper, that it changes on the playing perceptions of fractions.
time to take the math to the table..







-

[throtts]

Thinking about all this math stuff will make you all move on the shots guys..