getting through the ball

[throtts]

to get more power as in a screw shot is tightening the grip, this causes the tip to rise at the end of the stroke and results in striking the cue ball higher than intended ie less draw also muscle tension in the arm reduces cue speed ie less power.

All areas of the above are very true and all of this is what I tell and remind myself to do in pressure situations.

[barrywhite]

Barry, it is an unfortunate myth that still perpetuates and has been busted scientifically http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...p.html#contact
Drawing the ball simply is a factor of cue speed + mass and torque, the lower you contact the CB the more rotational force applied, it is simple physics. He simply generates more speed and accuracy of contact.

Load of guff, draw? Haha!

Torque involves grip and the more you grip the more torque you generate. It is not just about how hard you hit and how low, if that were true we'd all be able to screw as far as Judd by simply pounding the bottom of the CB. This does not work, in fact, it often results in less spin. Empiricism in snooker; yep, we've been there. We can use a rubber tip to generate incredible spin and those tips have been made. They work better due to grip. As we go through the ball, we grip it with chalk and generate extra spin. Try playing a screw shot with a shiny tip with no chalk on it and see how much you generate with equal force to a soft tip fully chalked. It's not just about force or contact point.

You can do a video you pounding the bottom of a CB and we'll do one where we delicately hit through the bottom of the CB; bet we make the white ball travel further. Steve Davis came out with this flawed model as well. Shame he can't screw it as far as Judd eh? I wonder why, when he's using a heavier cue (19oz) and hitting the ball as hard if not harder than Judd?! Well, that would be down to timing and getting through the ball then! How could Jimmy screw further than Davis then, if they both applied roughly the same force. Have a look at the table when Jimmy plays, long chalk marks; getting through the ball, generating grip on the CB otherwise known as torque. And timing isn't even a factor you've mentioned; pool players!

[bolton-cueman]

I am glad that this forum can finally be useful. there is not much knowledge here But if you can hold your breath a little bit longer , we'll get thr .
INM time I'm sure you're able to forgive us, Your Highness

are you on drugs? your posts make less sense each day Ramon

[bolton-cueman]

Load of guff, draw? Haha!

Torque involves grip and the more you grip the more torque you generate. It is not just about how hard you hit and how low, if that were true we'd all be able to screw as far as Judd by simply pounding the bottom of the CB. This does not work, in fact, it often results in less spin. Empiricism in snooker; yep, we've been there. We can use a rubber tip to generate incredible spin and those tips have been made. They work better due to grip. As we go through the ball, we grip it with chalk and generate extra spin. Try playing a screw shot with a shiny tip with no chalk on it and see how much you generate with equal force to a soft tip fully chalked. It's not just about force or contact point.

You can do a video you pounding the bottom of a CB and we'll do one where we delicately hit through the bottom of the CB; bet we make the white ball travel further. Steve Davis came out with this flawed model as well. Shame he can't screw it as far as Judd eh? I wonder why, when he's using a heavier cue (19oz) and hitting the ball as hard if not harder than Judd?! Well, that would be down to timing and getting through the ball then! How could Jimmy screw further than Davis then, if they both applied roughly the same force. Have a look at the table when Jimmy plays, long chalk marks; getting through the ball, generating grip on the CB otherwise known as torque. And timing isn't even a factor you've mentioned; pool players!

they did one of those ultra slow mo videos (10,000fps?) and it is indeed a myth that the tip stays in contact with the cue ball longer when playing a screw shot when compared with a standard shot.

its more to do with where the ball is hit and pace (i assume) than duration of contact.

[itsnoteasy]

I agree about the grip , on deep screw or pressure pots I actually tell myself to play less power, that way I stay relaxed get through nicely and time it better so get more reaction, if I'm playing poorly it's one of two things, head movement or grip, when it's both its time to go home.

[MrRottweiler]

My two cents is that to play through the ball and impart as much action as you can get relies on all the basics of course such as a rock solid stance and bridge hand but most crucially a good wrist action and grip because these remove the mechanical delivery of the elbow. The elbow is just a piston which doesn't give you the reaction you are looking for and you get that by keeping a firm but loose grip and moving the wrist backward as you deliver the cue. This also helps keep the cue straight as you strike instead of it raising up slightly. If you watch the pros when they have a shot that needs a lot of forward or backspin you can see they still keep the last few fingers of the grip hand loose on the butt and use the wrist to make sure the tip doesn't go up as they deliver the shot. I see players hit the shot wrong especially when they are using a lot of power and it's always because they don't deliver the cue straight.

Generally speaking the harder you hit it the more chance of missing which is why players are more about cue ball reaction because that means you don't need as much physical power behind the shot. Power is usually needed to get the cue ball where you want it so more spin can compensate for using less power. If you keep your tip chalked and can deliver powerful, follow through shots in a straight line (use the baulk line to practice) you can start getting much better reactions from the cue ball. How many people do you see play with top spin but don't raise their bridge hand so the cue is leaning up or play with backspin but don't drop the bridge so it's cueing downwards? That is the first point to consider and the rest is making sure you push the cue through straight even on the most powerful shots.

[markz]

I agree about the grip , on deep screw or pressure pots I actually tell myself to play less power, that way I stay relaxed get through nicely and time it better so get more reaction, if I'm playing poorly it's one of two things, head movement or grip, when it's both its time to go home.

That sounds like me itsnoteasy. I've sorted my grip and confident about that now but I'm a devil for lifting my head off shot and moving too early. Just me being lazy but trying to sort it. I might do a Steve Davis and get someone to hold cue flat on my head so I can't get up off shot lol

[Philthepockets]

Load of guff, draw? Haha!

Torque involves grip and the more you grip the more torque you generate. It is not just about how hard you hit and how low, if that were true we'd all be able to screw as far as Judd by simply pounding the bottom of the CB. This does not work, in fact, it often results in less spin. Empiricism in snooker; yep, we've been there. We can use a rubber tip to generate incredible spin and those tips have been made. They work better due to grip. As we go through the ball, we grip it with chalk and generate extra spin. Try playing a screw shot with a shiny tip with no chalk on it and see how much you generate with equal force to a soft tip fully chalked. It's not just about force or contact point.

You can do a video you pounding the bottom of a CB and we'll do one where we delicately hit through the bottom of the CB; bet we make the white ball travel further. Steve Davis came out with this flawed model as well. Shame he can't screw it as far as Judd eh? I wonder why, when he's using a heavier cue (19oz) and hitting the ball as hard if not harder than Judd?! Well, that would be down to timing and getting through the ball then! How could Jimmy screw further than Davis then, if they both applied roughly the same force. Have a look at the table when Jimmy plays, long chalk marks; getting through the ball, generating grip on the CB otherwise known as torque. And timing isn't even a factor you've mentioned; pool players!

Barry, using players as an example is not a true measure of what is happening, they all have different length strokes and don't all generate the same speed or accuracy. It has nothing to do with timing that is a product of the human factor of where along the stroke the most speed is generated before the cue starts to slow or contact is made. It matters nought who or what hits the CB, only speed mass and point of contact mater, cue balls are not smart.

[barrywhite]

Barry, using players as an example is not a true measure of what is happening, they all have different length strokes and don't all generate the same speed or accuracy. It has nothing to do with timing that is a product of the human factor of where along the stroke the most speed is generated before the cue starts to slow or contact is made. It matters nought who or what hits the CB, only speed mass and point of contact mater, cue balls are not smart.

Absolute rubbish, timing is everything in snooker and if you don't know that, what a surprise you're Canadian!

You've just said they have different lengths of stroke but you began by saying all that mattered was force and contact point.

Now WHY would length of stroke matter chum?! Is it because they go through the ball with a bigger length of stroke, gripping the ball and generating more spin. YES!

Ding and Fu can punch the ball as hard and fast as Jimmy and Judd, they'll never have the same cue power and that is down to timing and follow through. Ding and Fu simply have less fluent cue actions and less contact time on the CB. We can all see this on videos in slow mo.

[narl]

they did one of those ultra slow mo videos (10,000fps?) and it is indeed a myth that the tip stays in contact with the cue ball longer when playing a screw shot when compared with a standard shot.

its more to do with where the ball is hit and pace (i assume) than duration of contact.

Yup, to say the tip magically stays in contact with the white has long since been debunked. You can see it in these videos that the white is in front of the tip after contact despite what people used to think.

Follow through is just a natural side effect after playing a shot with power, its easier to go through with the cue than trying to stop it dead after contact.

[Philthepockets]

Absolute rubbish, timing is everything in snooker and if you don't know that, what a surprise you're Canadian!

You've just said they have different lengths of stroke but you began by saying all that mattered was force and contact point.

Now WHY would length of stroke matter chum?! Is it because they go through the ball with a bigger length of stroke, gripping the ball and generating more spin. YES!

Ding and Fu can punch the ball as hard and fast as Jimmy and Judd, they'll never have the same cue power and that is down to timing and follow through. Ding and Fu simply have less fluent cue actions and less contact time on the CB. We can all see this on videos in slow mo.

What does my nationality have to do with anything?
Length of stroke determines speed.
Not sure why you insist on denying the science, it is fact.

[itsnoteasy]

That black and yellow cue ball video was amazing.

[Ramon]

are you on drugs? your posts make less sense each day Ramon

No , I'm Not .
An Please keep ur feelings about my Post for urself .
I've enough friends ,, Not looking for new ones . ( sorry ).

[Ramon]

they did one of those ultra slow mo videos (10,000fps?) and it is indeed a myth that the tip stays in contact with the cue ball longer when playing a screw shot when compared with a standard shot.

its more to do with where the ball is hit and pace (i assume) than duration of contact.

Well , in that case , everyone would be able to make a scrwback shot , is'nt it ??
you obviously have too much experience in snooker .

[mikeyd100]

I'm a devil for lifting my head off shot and moving too early

Same here, get told a lot, a mate shouted at me once too haha.
Sometimes I do remember but old habits die hard !!