sighting

[vmax4steve]

The fact that I can get down on a shot and close my eyes on the final backswing and still pot the ball proves where you are looking doesn't matter. The fact you can't cue straight, move on the shot, or have other random inconsistencies in your technique, most certainly does.

No, no, no, no, when your eyes are closed you rely on muscle memory because you aren't seeing anything, with your eyes open you rely on hand/eye and your hand will follow whatever you're looking at.
That is the sole point on every thread I've ever posted on this subject, hand/eye is a natural process that cannot be overidden.

The Hurricane, world's worst twitcher and mover on the shot, but look at his eyes. Are they just nonchalantly looking in the general direction of the object ball or is there a steely focus on something more precise. On that split second of the strike it's where your looking that matters, it guides your hand.

[itsnoteasy]

Well I wasn't going to post this either because I didn't want shouted at lol, but yesterday I was doing something wrong involving some sort of movement and I couldn't figure it out, thought it was my eyes so this is what I did, put the ob between blue and pink spot and CB on baulk line , got online, got down ,checked I was happy, shut my eyes pulled back pushed through just feeling my cue come through to the finish position, result 10 out of 15 attempts were potted, ( I know two misses were because I wasn't online)what on earth that proves I have no idea, was I potting them because I was perfectly still? Does it prove your eyes are more a hinderance than a help it they wander about when cueing? I genuinely haven't got a clue I can only tell you what happened.

[tetricky]

Well I wasn't going to post this either because I didn't want shouted at lol, but yesterday I was doing something wrong involving some sort of movement and I couldn't figure it out, thought it was my eyes so this is what I did, put the ob between blue and pink spot and CB on baulk line , got online, got down ,checked I was happy, shut my eyes pulled back pushed through just feeling my cue come through to the finish position, result 10 out of 15 attempts were potted, ( I know two misses were because I wasn't online)what on earth that proves I have no idea, was I potting them because I was perfectly still? Does it prove your eyes are more a hinderance than a help it they wander about when cueing? I genuinely haven't got a clue I can only tell you what happened.

I've been helping someone with difficulty sighting and aiming (really, really inconsistent eyes...not their fault). What they see when stood up, is different to when down on the shot. They were having trouble believing that position of the stance mattered, if you could sight the shot while down and adjust the cue. So I did this with them getting down on the shot, and sighting when down, and got them to bring through the cue but CLOSING THEIR EYES as the cue hit the final pause. I would leave a visual indicator when stance was in line with the cue, or not, before the shot was played, so they could check afterwards.

The results were: Everything in line, eyes closed on delivery of the cue, led to a relatively high pot success rate. Stance out of alignment with the line of the cue, eyes closed on delivery, almost no pots.

I think looking at the point of contact on the cue ball is important. Pot success rate went up with that, and all other things being equal. However, if there was a misalignment of stance and cue delivery pots would be missed by miles, or there would be much unintended side.

Good players really have no problem with this sort of stuff, and don't even think about it....but for some of us it's a real issue. Some of us have eyes that lie (depending on what shot we are looking at).

[itsnoteasy]

You could be right there Tetricky, I was definitely taking more care to make sure I was online when doing the exercise because I knew I would be closing my eyes. I am convinced my eyes are more of a hinderance than a help when I'm down on the shot, whether it's because they move , or what, they are not helping, so I'm not sure if locking on is in any way as important as staying still.

[throtts]

I'm not sure if locking on is in any way as important as staying still.

You definitely need to do both, surely thats a done deal for all players..

[tetricky]

You could be right there Tetricky, I was definitely taking more care to make sure I was online when doing the exercise because I knew I would be closing my eyes. I am convinced my eyes are more of a hinderance than a help when I'm down on the shot, whether it's because they move , or what, they are not helping, so I'm not sure if locking on is in any way as important as staying still.

You can pot with your eyes closed, but you'll never get the success rate or consistency you need. it's not a way of playing, but it can be an interesting exercise to check your alignment (rather than your ability to compensate as you bring the cue through to hit where you need to for the pot). If my experience is a common one, then with your eyes looking at the correct spot your pot success rate will go up massively. If everything is in line you should always get close to the pot with your eyes closed...if not the results can be hilarious.

You need your eyes though....this is just a way of seeing how everything else lines up.

[throtts]

The Hurricane, world's worst twitcher and mover on the shot, but look at his eyes. Are they just nonchalantly looking in the general direction of the object ball or is there a steely focus on something more precise. On that split second of the strike it's where your looking that matters, it guides your hand.

[ATTACH]18269[/ATTACH]

Yep,,, guys have talked on here with ref to players knocking in big breaks but they show and have a crap technique . There the ones locking on to the OB with the eyes.

I am with you regarding this and know when I do it any movement on shot is prevented or helped at least.

[itsnoteasy]

You can pot with your eyes closed, but you'll never get the success rate or consistency you need. it's not a way of playing, but it can be an interesting exercise to check your alignment (rather than your ability to compensate as you bring the cue through to hit where you need to for the pot). If my experience is a common one, then with your eyes looking at the correct spot your pot success rate will go up massively. If everything is in line you should always get close to the pot with your eyes closed...if not the results can be hilarious.

You need your eyes though....this is just a way of seeing how everything else lines up.

My point is you use your eyes to find the line ,you use them to keep you on the line, once you have done that it's just about a straight delivery, so if you take the eyes out of the equation, they can't wander around taking your cue offline, and causing movement,this is what I meant by are they a help or a hindrance ?

[Terry Davidson]

My point is you use your eyes to find the line ,you use them to keep you on the line, once you have done that it's just about a straight delivery, so if you take the eyes out of the equation, they can't wander around taking your cue offline, and causing movement,this is what I meant by are they a help or a hindrance ?

One of my theories...when you close the eyes to pot, as vmax says, you are relying on muscle memory and staying still on the shot, however I also think with the eyes closed you don't really know where the cueball is so you will ensure you hit it solid and therefore 'drive through' the cueball as everyone should.

I think the 'eyes-closed' exercise is a good one which will help ingrain solid striking.

[pottr]

They were having trouble believing that position of the stance mattered

Absolutely this!

I have lost count on the amount of players I have seen who miss balls because their stance is poor.

Let's assume that we can all push the cue through straight and align a shot. A correct stance eliminates the margin of error through pure mechanics.

Don't believe me? Try this...

Line up a shot with a textbook stance with your back foot pointing along the line of aim. Get down to the shot and cue. Then, try and move your elbow out without taking the cue of your bridge and chin... You will be impeded by the sheer mechanics of your body's alignment.

Try doing the same thing with your feet open pointing away at right angles or standing side on. You can throw your elbow out so far that you could topple yourself over if you wanted to.

Solid stance. Solid bridge. Consistent and comfortable grip. Cue on the chin and chest.

There is a reason these aspects of the cue action are taught from the beginning... They are paramount to the conquest of the cue action. All you want to do, is push the cue through straight at the time of strike...

If you're missing pots. Then it's down to movement, poor alignment or poor delivery.

If you want to blame your eyes... then you can... but the only time they will fail you is when you are looking for the line of aim.

When you are down on the shot, if your fundamentals are sound and your technique is consistent. It follows logically that the only reason we miss, is through undue movement.

And that's not a bad thing, because even the best players in the world miss.

[culraven]

Unfortunately not everyone has perfect stance, or can even obtain it. I play with a lot of old boys who can no longer get down on the shot, one even shoots from the hip, those who used to be able to play a bit and can still pot a few all say they now line up the shot on walking in and concentrate on the object ball, the brain just does the rest. I do wonder though if this would be the case for someone new to the game forced to play in a similar fashion or if they can play this way as they already have a snooker brain?

[itsnoteasy]

I agree Pottr, ( well with me its movement) but I have had this struggle since I started, what is causing it,is it my eyes wandering that then causes me to move trying to correct it, or am I moving causing my eyes having to relocate the ball, if that makes any sense, I have a feeling it's the former ( well I know it's the former)and I just can't fix it, I'm even more convinced it's that after doing the eyes shut routine, because I have no movement whatsoever with them shut, so no conflicting information. Maybe I have just reached my level of knocking in the odd fifty and that's that.

[throtts]

Maybe I have just reached my level of knocking in the odd fifty and that's that.

No way. Its when your near your PB you just forget to do the things correctly to which got you to the 50 in the first place. Its called getting over excited, which then blows everything out the window.

But that there is the difference between a good player and a very good pro player. They handle the occasion better.

[pottr]

Unfortunately not everyone has perfect stance, or can even obtain it. I play with a lot of old boys who can no longer get down on the shot, one even shoots from the hip, those who used to be able to play a bit and can still pot a few all say they now line up the shot on walking in and concentrate on the object ball, the brain just does the rest.

I'm in that category myself. I might be relatively young but my right leg is in a poor state following sports injuries. When I force myself to stand properly and can handle the discomfort, my game picks up and my technique falls into line. Yeah, I can still pot balls, but not at the same level if I don't stay consistent with the tekkers.

I do wonder though if this would be the case for someone new to the game forced to play in a similar fashion or if they can play this way as they already have a snooker brain?

Nope. I think it's that you can learn to make anything work. You could learn to drive a car with your elbows if you wished. It's just not a method that should be taught. But like anything, you judge on results.

[pottr]

What Throtts says as usual is on the money.

It's about levels I guess?

Just remind yourself, if you can keep still, you can keep still. So do it.