Potting With Side

[j6uk]

Yes. You need side all the time in the balls to tweak position. It's also a lot better to use than side rather than stun in a lot of cases. If you're going to make big breaks consistently, you'll need to be using side in the balls.

You're a good player, and don't think you use it. My guess would be, that actually, you do naturally play with side and don't even realise it.

from my experiance if a players got a good white and getting right on most shots then side wouldn't be used so much, you'd simply move up an down on the center of white and play more stun and less side. especially in good conditions. use a bit more on a rug with wood cushions..
but each to their own. be a good idea to see some big breaks and try and spot the side
subconscious side, could be a new thread

[tedisbill]

from my experiance if a players got a good white and getting right on most shots then side wouldn't be used so much, you'd simply move up an down on the center of white and play more stun and less side. especially in good conditions. use a bit more on a rug with wood cushions..
but each to their own. be a good idea to see some big breaks and try and spot the side
subconscious side, could be a new thread

Yeah I think generally you'd be playing stuns and screws. Maybe 30-40% of the time, you'll be needing to use side.

[tedisbill]

I think what bothers me, is people seem to suggest or think that you haven't got go use side in snooker. Unfortunately, you have. I'm not saying you're suggesting that J6, just that it comes across sometimes like players don't need to worry about using side, when they absolutely do.

[focus]

I think what bothers me, is people seem to suggest or think that you haven't got go use side in snooker. Unfortunately, you have. I'm not saying you're suggesting that J6, just that it comes across sometimes like players don't need to worry about using side, when they absolutely do.

Players like Eddie Charlton avoided side. But it is useful. A lot of players use side to correct for poor position; they'd be better off improving position to begin with. Sometimes, we have to use side due to circumstances out of a our control, I get that. I see a lot of folk resort to side off a cushion to avoid playing drag or drop-weight shots; they don't seem to trust their cue action. They'd rather hit with more force than necessary and come off a cushion. This tends to get them into trouble with middle bags when the OB pings out.

[focus]

from my experiance if a players got a good white and getting right on most shots then side wouldn't be used so much, you'd simply move up an down on the center of white and play more stun and less side. especially in good conditions. use a bit more on a rug with wood cushions..
but each to their own. be a good idea to see some big breaks and try and spot the side
subconscious side, could be a new thread

And has dr. dave done a paper along with a Freudian psychologist about subconscious and conscious side? Do people use subconscious side because a childhood incident? LOL

[j6uk]

maybe its simply the better the players cue ball is the less side they need.

as far as training to use it for a beginner, they should just go mad on it and use it on every shot. defy every angle, have fun with it and see where it takes them

[markz]

Players like Eddie Charlton avoided side. But it is useful. A lot of players use side to correct for poor position; they'd be better off improving position to begin with. Sometimes, we have to use side due to circumstances out of a our control, I get that. I see a lot of folk resort to side off a cushion to avoid playing drag or drop-weight shots; they don't seem to trust their cue action. They'd rather hit with more force than necessary and come off a cushion. This tends to get them into trouble with middle bags when the OB pings out.

The guy that asked the original question about using side said he was a 20-40 break player on his best days. Says he's struggling with position and hoping using side will help.

[j6uk]

Yeah I think generally you'd be playing stuns and screws. Maybe 30-40% of the time, you'll be needing to use side.

thats still quite a bit, for me anyway. i know its only a lineup but in this sequence max attempt i used side twice

[MrRottweiler]

I don't think Davis used much side and most players avoided it until Hendry came along and showed how good side can be with his trademark powershot blue in to the pack using running side to swing the cueball in to the pack or pink. His general ability to use side to keep his cueball on a string made more players play the same and for breakbuilding using left and right side is just as important as top and bottom spin but most shots are missed because of incorrect use of side. I think it's wise to avoid left/right side when you can because of the risks. Players like Hendry, Ronnie and John Higgins make it look easy but there are also players who prefer to roll balls in and come off cushions with little side instead of arching the cueball into position. Some players will play half ball with a tonne of side and it makes me wonder why they don't play quarter ball so they don't need to use as much side.

I think it's important for players to learn to play shots with side but only to make it easier for them to know how to not need to use it. My old practice partner would get in amongst the reds and then knock in a frame winner with just stuns and rolls. Most shots just plain ball with some screwbacks and run throughs to keep it going. The cueball travelling no more than a foot on each shot. When you have such an advanced snooker brain like that it becomes a touch sport where you do as little as possible with the cueball.

[tedisbill]

Just watched Ronnie's fastest 147. I'd say there are 10 shots in that break where he uses side. That's 28% of shots with side. So unless you can play those key shots, you won't be consistently scoring heavy. There are also 26 shots without side of course, but that's break building for you... 3-4 key shots in a break.

EDIT: My initial guess at 30-40% of shots using side was wrong, it's probably more like 20-30%.

[markz]

Just watched Ronnie's fastest 147. I'd say there are 10 shots in that break where he uses side. That's 28% of shots with side. So unless you can play those key shots, you won't be consistently scoring heavy. There are also 26 shots without side of course, but that's break building for you... 3-4 key shots in a break.

EDIT: My initial guess at 30-40% of shots using side was wrong, it's probably more like 20-30%.

I agree ted, to become a good player you need to learn all the skills but for 20-40 break players at best it can make their game even worse as they are still learning potting angles and delivering the cue. I have many friends that play the game similar to the OP and they end up making the game so much harder to learn by insisting on making every other shot too difficult with side spin. Keeping it simple and developing skills gradually for beginners is the key, luckily the OP is going to see a coach so fingers crossed he will get some good one to one advice.

[tedisbill]

I agree ted, to become a good player you need to learn all the skills but for 20-40 break players at best it can make their game even worse as they are still learning potting angles and delivering the cue. I have many friends that play the game similar to the OP and they end up making the game so much harder to learn by insisting on making every other shot too difficult with side spin. Keeping it simple and developing skills gradually for beginners is the key, luckily the OP is going to see a coach so fingers crossed he will get some good one to one advice.

I actually think this is a really interesting topic to be honest. At what point do you introduce a player to side? On day one? When they've made a 30? Or a 40? A 50? Would you let them play for 2 years without side at all, and then introduce it?

Yeah the coach is the best way to go. You'd need to know what goals the individual has, and how hard they're going to/want to work.

[markz]

I actually think this is a really interesting topic to be honest. At what point do you introduce a player to side? On day one? When they've made a 30? Or a 40? A 50? Would you let them play for 2 years without side at all, and then introduce it?

Yeah the coach is the best way to go. You'd need to know what goals the individual has, and how hard they're going to/want to work.

I'd say it depends on the individual to when they are ready to add using side to their game. If you have a good grasp of the basics it would be easier to start learning. If your the sort of player that wants to run before walking it can stop any improvement.

I've known guys play 15-20 years and they love pretending they are on tv playing all the shots with side and they can't understand why they can't string any breaks together. I was happy waiting till 50 break standard and then starting to test out the use of side, even now though I'll always play the plain ball if it's available and try leave the best angle for next shot.

[Ramon]

Hey Guys does anyone have any tips for judging the angle that you need to adjust to when potting with side ?

If you can afford to buy this book. You can find sum answers you're looking for ( i believe vmax mentioned this sumwhere on this forum few yrs ago ).
Also read post No 8.
There are some coaches who believe you gonna have to wait with using side until you re a 50 breaker. likes Terry D. Not every coach would agree with him.
Different opinions about this.
imo, is sumthing u gonna have to learn it by a lot of practice .

http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Snooke...KW3772GCQ6EYMK

Chris Henry said , 95 percent of players who think they can hit the center of CB every time consistently , are wrong.
And I do agree with him. many players using side without been aware of it. so why not learn to use it on a decent way ?

goodluck.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Every cue and more importantly, different types of tips do different things w.r.t. throw. That's why we have to learn to understand our cues/tips and why most players hate to change cues after a while. All he has to do it attempt the pot with running side or check side until he succeeds (as VMax has suggested). He will automatically learn bit by bit how to adjust the throw for a short, medium and long range pot and everything in between. But that's just for one application of degree of side. With the myriad of degrees, he'll have more learning to do. But no diagrams or formulae are going to help him pot a ball because snooker is experiential, played in four dimension, not on a piece of paper. Formulae have never ever potted a ball. It takes years to learn and understand spin of all types no matter how little time it takes to understand the theory of spin and throw.

It takes seconds to learn that tips make no difference to how much a cue deflects, although it can take years for pride to allow it.

It also takes mere seconds to stop conflating terminology.