Help appreciated!

[tomwalker147]

I did mate! I had a really good lesson up there a couple of weeks before it and decided to give it a shot, for the experience more than anything. Are you one of the whipper snappers that bashed me up!?

I didn't make a mug of myself actually (which was the main objective!) and I came away thinking I should have got out of the group which surprised me.

Thanks for the note about my action too and well up for putting the practice in, so hopefully I'll see some progress.

It was myself who played you last- we were already both knocked out! I felt the same really, I edged past you 2-1, won against Parnham 3-0 but lost my other matches 2-1 and 3-0. I could have gotten through but didn't put the practice in beforehand so can't really complain!

I thought you were a handy player mate, I wouldn't get too bogged down worrying about your action. Who were the coaches you saw up there? I had a session there myself 18 months ago, somebody Curtis (can't remember his first name but he was very good).

[Big Splash!]

I do hold the cue quite far back, I'd never noticed that before. I've just measured my length too, so to speak, and I think I'm around 11-12 inches, which does sound long. I'll double check that on the table though next I'm playing. I do sometimes feel as though I would benefit from being a little closer in. I might have a play around with that and see how it feels. Cheers Big Splash!

haha, if you're playing tom147, you ain't too bad bud!

Personally, I'm holding my 58'' cue around the 55-56'' mark, 8-9'' bridge to ball. And I'm 6'. R Foot in line, L foot forward. my R forearm is vertical when I'm down. I don't have short arms, they're average length for my height I guess. As an aside, I've seen folk on here the same height or shorter discuss getting 60'' cues! I'm amazed by this. They can only fit these cues in and hold the cue at the back if their forearm isn't vertical; which it should be according to every coach I've come across. And, they must have 12'' BtB which is way too much. A lot of folk make the mistake of thinking because JP recommends a cue at 58'' for the average person, they should be holding it at the end and adapt their cue action accordingly. This is complete nonsense, that JP would understand if he ever had coaching and actually played the game. Because of these myths perpetuating, you'll hear stacks of people in clubs saying the same thing, hold it at max length. Hendry doesn't do this, Davis and Ronnie don't. The forearm should be vertical like a lamp post (not leaning either side) so that the elbow is merely a hinge, reducing body movement. Movement of which, you have little. Mostly, I like your pre-shot routine and address and nice but firm cue action and shot. It's something a lot of woodpushers can learn from. But then again, we're not pros and don't have the time to correct every little thing a coach may recommend, so faults at Am level shouldn't be criticised too harshly.

I think the biggest issue you need to solve are those cackling muppets in the background distracting you. Be quiet for the snooker player please!

[Marfling]

Yeah, I remember you! I remember thinking you looked natural and could definitely tell you knew your way around the table.

Can you remember the name of the guy there with his dad? We were at one all and I got a chance in the decider, missed and he went 120! He's practicing for Q school, wouldn't mind keeping an eye out for him.

I saw Andrew Norman - the guy that runs the place and organises the comps. He was absolutely brilliant and really knowledgable/passionate about the game. Helped me without a doubt. He's completely honest too, won't sell you a bunch of lessons if you don't need them like some coaches.

Thanks again mate, appreciate your comments.

It was myself who played you last- we were already both knocked out! I felt the same really, I edged past you 2-1, won against Parnham 3-0 but lost my other matches 2-1 and 3-0. I could have gotten through but didn't put the practice in beforehand so can't really complain!

I thought you were a handy player mate, I wouldn't get too bogged down worrying about your action. Who were the coaches you saw up there? I had a session there myself 18 months ago, somebody Curtis (can't remember his first name but he was very good).

[tomwalker147]

Yeah, I remember you! I remember thinking you looked natural and could definitely tell you knew your way around the table.

Can you remember the name of the guy there with his dad? We were at one all and I got a chance in the decider, missed and he went 120! He's practicing for Q school, wouldn't mind keeping an eye out for him.

I saw Andrew Norman - the guy that runs the place and organises the comps. He was absolutely brilliant and really knowledgable/passionate about the game. Helped me without a doubt. He's completely honest too, won't sell you a bunch of lessons if you don't need them like some coaches.

Thanks again mate, appreciate your comments.

Thank you mate that's very kind. Yes I know him well we play from the same club, his name is Adam Edge. Good player, putting in a lot of work to try and make it. I lost 2-1 to him as well but the 2 frames I lost I was completely destroyed, i'm glad i've been on his team over the years rather than having to play against him! I thought the other lad Rhys was the best player in the group, he played quite quickly and had 2 70's and an 80 to beat me 3-0

I only know Andrew to say hello to but he comes across as a good straight up guy. If you're just getting back into the game have a bit of patience, put the work in and have the occasional coaching session if you feel you need it. From memory you have really good touch around the balls, I think you were in nicely against me but missed a black off the spot that I didn't expect you to miss. That's probably more to do with match sharpness than your action. If you ever have any questions drop me a message.

[Marfling]

haha, if you're playing tom147, you ain't too bad bud!

Personally, I'm holding my 58'' cue around the 55-56'' mark, 8-9'' bridge to ball. And I'm 6'. R Foot in line, L foot forward. my R forearm is vertical when I'm down. I don't have short arms, they're average length for my height I guess. As an aside, I've seen folk on here the same height or shorter discuss getting 60'' cues! I'm amazed by this. They can only fit these cues in and hold the cue at the back if their forearm isn't vertical; which it should be according to every coach I've come across. And, they must have 12'' BtB which is way too much. A lot of folk make the mistake of thinking because JP recommends a cue at 58'' for the average person, they should be holding it at the end and adapt their cue action accordingly. This is complete nonsense, that JP would understand if he ever had coaching and actually played the game. Because of these myths perpetuating, you'll hear stacks of people in clubs saying the same thing, hold it at max length. Hendry doesn't do this, Davis and Ronnie don't. The forearm should be vertical like a lamp post (not leaning either side) so that the elbow is merely a hinge, reducing body movement. Movement of which, you have little. Mostly, I like your pre-shot routine and address and nice but firm cue action and shot. It's something a lot of woodpushers can learn from. But then again, we're not pros and don't have the time to correct every little thing a coach may recommend, so faults at Am level shouldn't be criticised too harshly.

I think the biggest issue you need to solve are those cackling muppets in the background distracting you. Be quiet for the snooker player please!

Ha! It can get a bit noisy in there at times. Rowdy Bristolians getting ready for the weekend that. They're good on a match night though so I'll let 'em off.

There is a lot of bad advice floating about. I've always thought that the cue should come up to your armpit or thereabouts (which mine does) but can't remember where I heard that. I got my cue from Green Baize but come to think of it, I just went for the generally recommended spec. 58", 10mm and 17.5oz I think. Smashing bit of wood though, I'm made up with it. Was with me in two days as well, god knows how long the wait is for a JP these days.

We aren't pros - that's a good point. I think being too perfectionist would just take all of the enjoyment out of it. Especially when a change in setup can take a good while to get used to and things will invariably get worse before getting better. I do find the finer points of technique quite interesting though!

[Marfling]

Thank you mate that's very kind. Yes I know him well we play from the same club, his name is Adam Edge. Good player, putting in a lot of work to try and make it. I lost 2-1 to him as well but the 2 frames I lost I was completely destroyed, i'm glad i've been on his team over the years rather than having to play against him! I thought the other lad Rhys was the best player in the group, he played quite quickly and had 2 70's and an 80 to beat me 3-0

I only know Andrew to say hello to but he comes across as a good straight up guy. If you're just getting back into the game have a bit of patience, put the work in and have the occasional coaching session if you feel you need it. From memory you have really good touch around the balls, I think you were in nicely against me but missed a black off the spot that I didn't expect you to miss. That's probably more to do with match sharpness than your action. If you ever have any questions drop me a message.

I think his Dad said it was his last effort at Q School so best of luck to him. Id certainly prefer to have him on my team than have to play him.

I remember twitching on a few against you, the black was probably one of them!

Hopefully see you up there again some time. Thanks again pal.

[Big Splash!]

Ha! It can get a bit noisy in there at times. Rowdy Bristolians getting ready for the weekend that. They're good on a match night though so I'll let 'em off.

There is a lot of bad advice floating about. I've always thought that the cue should come up to your armpit or thereabouts (which mine does) but can't remember where I heard that. I got my cue from Green Baize but come to think of it, I just went for the generally recommended spec. 58", 10mm and 17.5oz I think. Smashing bit of wood though, I'm made up with it. Was with me in two days as well, god knows how long the wait is for a JP these days.

We aren't pros - that's a good point. I think being too perfectionist would just take all of the enjoyment out of it. Especially when a change in setup can take a good while to get used to and things will invariably get worse before getting better. I do find the finer points of technique quite interesting though!

You got a great attitude to improvement. Too many on here and around clubs who say don't change anything, just keep practising the same faults. Nothing ventured nothing gained for me and the journey is the really interesting bit, changing and challenging oneself, finding out about inner will and the love you have. GBL; great cues. Your weight and tip size sound spot on. I had a Phoenix at 9.3mm, a failed experiment. 9.8-10mm is my fancy from youth, so that's what I went back to after the Phoenix. The less unwanted side the better for me.

[Marfling]

Just thought I'd give a quick update to this thread as I've made some progress and it might help others.

I've been practicing a few specific things to try and force them to become good habits and it seems to have worked. I very much doubt any of these things will surprise anyone, they've all been mentioned on here a thousand times, but perhaps this will just help remind one or two people that the basics are so important.

Firstly, I had to make sure that I always take my chest to the cue. I have such a bad habit of getting lazy with this and sometimes I think I'm doing it when I'm not. My technique feels completely different when I'm chest to cue, I'm more confident I can pot the ball.

Secondly, keeping perfectly still was something I really focused on as I had a habit of lifting my head quite a lot when switching from CB to OB before striking, especially on the long shots. What helped here was actually lifting my head up slightly when down on the shot, if that makes sense. That meant I didn't feel the need to lift my head to focus on OB.

Thirdly, getting through the ball better on every shot. I've got better at this, but a long way to go.

Lastly and most importantly, getting my hip out of the way of my backswing. This has been the real challenge for me, I think because it required a change in stance, but this is the main reason I've been wildly inconsistent for so long. Even now I still have shots where I pull the cue back and it whacks my hip, but at least I now get up and reset, whereas before I'd just go around my hip on the backswing and then obviously cut across the ball on delivery. I've been playing the game for ages and I can't believe my hip has been getting in the way for most of that time!

When my hip is out of the way, it honestly feels like a completely different game. It's hard to explain what I mean, but I think it just gives me a heap of extra confidence and I feel like I'm going to pot balls now when down on the shot. Before, it was 50/50 whether the easiest of shots would go in.

Even with the hip out of the way though, I really need to focus on that backswing because I'm so used to taking the cue back off straight. So my backswing is now quite slow and I rely on feedback from my chin to tell me if I've gone off straight. Does anyone else do this?

The best thing about all of this is that I made my first century (in a match no less!) a couple of months ago. I've not got anywhere near making another one since which is cheesing me off, I thought if I ever made a ton I'd be then knocking them in all of the time! But the 30s and 40s are become much more regular. Practically making them every week in the league, although the standard ain't up to much.

I haven't reached the best of my ability yet, only practice will get me there (like a few people said on this thread) but I'm enjoying the game a great deal more. It's a great feeling when you're confident and playing well!

I hope this helps someone.

[markz]

Nice post Marfling, if you get good basics nailed down you always have a good foundation to build the rest of your game. When you trust what your doing the game is so much easier. Congratulations on the century, I'm in the same club, had one and can't get the second one on the board. Fingers crossed it will come for both of us and many more.

[tomwalker147]

Well done Martin chuffed for you mate!
It took me best part of a year to get my second one... It's good to see what hard work can do for somebody, keep at it

[cantpotforshíte]

Even with the hip out of the way though, I really need to focus on that backswing because I'm so used to taking the cue back off straight. So my backswing is now quite slow and I rely on feedback from my chin to tell me if I've gone off straight. Does anyone else do this?

Congratulations on making your first century, and in a match to boot.
Re: the above quote, it sounds like you've found a way to get lined up effortlessly now that your hip is out of the way, and all you need to do is cue straight. Rather than trying to cue straight, have you tried just hitting from the elbow? Put your brains in your elbow, be your elbow, imagine your elbow as a simple hinge joint, say the word elbow as you pull the cue back... do any of the above, whatever it takes to put your awareness there. Your elbow really can only move in one plane ... doing it this way feels a lot better than trying to cue straight.

[Marfling]

Nice post Marfling, if you get good basics nailed down you always have a good foundation to build the rest of your game. When you trust what your doing the game is so much easier. Congratulations on the century, I'm in the same club, had one and can't get the second one on the board. Fingers crossed it will come for both of us and many more.

Cheers mate, I'm sure it will! I do have more trust and confidence in what I'm doing which is making things a lot easier. It also allows you to focus more on the break building side of it, which is even more dam difficult!

[Marfling]

Well done Martin chuffed for you mate!
It took me best part of a year to get my second one... It's good to see what hard work can do for somebody, keep at it

Cheers mate, I appreciate that.

Everyone I've spoken to seems to say the same thing! I thought they'd be like buses after the first one.

I think my positional play lets me down sometimes and I don't plan far enough ahead when building a break. Something else that needs endless practice!

Hope you're playing well.

[Marfling]

Congratulations on making your first century, and in a match to boot.
Re: the above quote, it sounds like you've found a way to get lined up effortlessly now that your hip is out of the way, and all you need to do is cue straight. Rather than trying to cue straight, have you tried just hitting from the elbow? Put your brains in your elbow, be your elbow, imagine your elbow as a simple hinge joint, say the word elbow as you pull the cue back... do any of the above, whatever it takes to put your awareness there. Your elbow really can only move in one plane ... doing it this way feels a lot better than trying to cue straight.

Cheers buddy!

The thing is, I don't want to be concentrating on my chin when cueing, so I do need to try something else. It's not very consistent either. I'll definitely give hitting from the elbow a shot. I remember ROS saying something like that in a coaching vid, but never quite understood what he meant. I guess when your in position, the elbow can only move in one plane - I just never really got that because my elbow has been all over the shop trying to avoid my hip. I suppose if the elbow does move off this plain, it's because of something else, like shoulder movement or twisting the wrist?

Thanks for the help!

[cantpotforshíte]

Cheers buddy!
I suppose if the elbow does move off this plain, it's because of something else, like shoulder movement or twisting the wrist?

Thanks for the help!

Without a doubt, that's right. As an experiment, stand with your right arm (or your cueing arm) straight down by your side and your palm facing inwards to your thigh. Bending the arm at the elbow (but keeping your upper arm still), bring your hand upwards and down again in a vertical plane - with the fingers of your other hand pressing on the front of your shoulder joint you can feel that it's not moving. Now do the same but veer off that vertical plane, inwards or outwards, you'll feel your shoulder joint move noticeably, even though the upper arm still seems to be quite still.
That's why shooting from the elbow works so well.