What do people think of Roy Chisholm's Snooker Secrets?

[travisbickle]

You are entitled to your opinion Travis (you say imo) however there are some things being said here which need some facts. First of all I am a Master Coach and I'm entitled to speak on snooker subjects. Certified with Snooker Gym (Nic Barrow), IBSF, WPBSA and Matchroom (Wayne and Terry Griffiths). Since I can no longer play with the skill I used to have in the 80's I decided to coach (those that can do, those that can't coach).

The other thing is in the Jack Karnham video it's no wonder he used the top spot because as a billiards player he is very familiar with top-of-the-table play since the only spot used in billiards is the top spot for winning hazards. Billiards players used side on virtually every shot and don't forget Chisholm is also an old billiards player who uses side on virtually every shot. Karnham used to teach the B&SCC coach training course and the only student who every failed that course was Frank Callan who is regarded as the best coach who ever lived. What did Frank disagree with? It was the use of side by Karnham on shots that didn't need side. With ivory and crystalite heavier balls perhaps side was transferred to the object ball in a manner that could be used but I have never used those balls. If side is transferred on Super Crystalite or Aramith Pro balls I don't think it is in a usable amount. Also notice in the Chisholm video he uses the middle pockets which are the largest on most tables. I have noticed the gear effect on angled pots but it's not something that can be controlled, it is what it is.

Throw on the other hand is usable and can be controlled but it takes a lot of practice and skill because it's power dependent. Because a player has to compensate on aiming when using side why use it on shots that don't need it and complicate the shot? The player must learn the deflection of the cueball through experience and take into account the flex of the cue, the weight of the cloth and other things that effect deflection. Vmax uses helping side but he has probably always used it and knows from experience how to use it and he is more confident using it.

It's my OPINION and this is a forum and anyone is allowed to express their opinions on the statements being made, even Mr. B.S. although he seems to prefer to denigrate anyone who doesn't agree with him rather than trying to explain his position or opposition clearly. As he says, I might be confused but only because of a lack of clear explanations on whatever topic he is onto.

Fair enough you know a lot about the game.
But imo you still have a lot to learn if you think you have to hit the correct angle on the OB to pot it.
Every day is a school day mate

[Little Reggie]

From the video posted please notice the cueball is not hitting the OB dead-on so there is some gear effect taking place there as there is in any angled shot. Whether this alters the OB path is up for debate.

I would like to see a video where the OB will not pot in a straight line but the striker puts spin on the cueball and gets the OB to swerve, or at least change its path and get into the pocket. Now that would be a useful tool for both snooker and pool. Don't know how you could set it up though so the viewer can see the OB will not pot in a straight line because there is a couple of millimeters of another ball in the way. Of course you could always play a combo in this scenario though.

Good morning. Isn't this what Mr Stark did at 8:00 in his video. He explains and shows that the blue is not pottable (the red obscuring the true potting angle). He then plays the blue with extreme R hand side and 'kicks' the ball over into a pot. To do this he plays the shot very gently. He later explains that if you hit the ball harder, much of the kick is lost. He has a great rep as a coach, being an honest gent as well.

https://youtu.be/7L6P6jGfefI

[DeanH]

Good morning. Isn't this what Mr Stark did at 8:00 in his video. He explains and shows that the blue is not pottable (the red obscuring the true potting angle). He then plays the blue with extreme R hand side and 'kicks' the ball over into a pot. To do this he plays the shot very gently. He later explains that if you hit the ball harder, much of the kick is lost. He has a great rep as a coach, being an honest gent as well.

https://youtu.be/7L6P6jGfefI

this is not the same as discussed, TD wants a video showing the (using the same balls as the video) Blue arcing past a red that blocks the natural straight pot to the pocket, any video of that? The Cue ball and "potting angle" are not impeded but the pocket is.

[travisbickle]

From the video posted please notice the cueball is not hitting the OB dead-on so there is some gear effect taking place there as there is in any angled shot. Whether this alters the OB path is up for debate.

I would like to see a video where the OB will not pot in a straight line but the striker puts spin on the cueball and gets the OB to swerve, or at least change its path and get into the pocket. Now that would be a useful tool for both snooker and pool. Don't know how you could set it up though so the viewer can see the OB will not pot in a straight line because there is a couple of millimeters of another ball in the way. Of course you could always play a combo in this scenario though.

Kyren Wilson's shot on the red is that very shot. You can see clearly the red change it's path after contact.

[Little Reggie]

this is not the same as discussed, TD wants a video showing the (using the same balls as the video) Blue arcing past a red that blocks the natural straight pot to the pocket, any video of that? The Cue ball and "potting angle" are not impeded but the pocket is.

Such a video would be tricky to produce. You'd need a camera above the table, perhaps clamped in the canopy? I would suggest swapping the blue for a spotted white ball so that one can see the spin of the OB as well. I don't know why your friend wants such a video, given that other videos referenced by members clearly show the OB spinning and arcing after side xfer, deviating from a natural path without side. Whether Mr Stark achieved such a thing (arcing) I doubt, I'm not sure but he did achieve the 'kick' and this was enough to pot the ball. That's only my take on things. Meanwhile, the grass grows and the lawn needs attention......

[throtts]

this is not the same as discussed, TD wants a video showing the (using the same balls as the video) Blue arcing past a red that blocks the natural straight pot to the pocket, any video of that? The Cue ball and "potting angle" are not impeded but the pocket is.

Hahaha,, holy moly. I have never seen a shot like that on TV, been watching snooks for 40 yrs.

Maybe on a bucket pocket pool table because those tables would gobble up a melon. .

[DeanH]

Such a video would be tricky to produce. You'd need a camera above the table, perhaps clamped in the canopy? I would suggest swapping the blue for a spotted white ball so that one can see the spin of the OB as well. I don't know why your friend wants such a video, given that other videos referenced by members clearly show the OB spinning and arcing after side xfer, deviating from a natural path without side. Whether Mr Stark achieved such a thing (arcing) I doubt, I'm not sure but he did achieve the 'kick' and this was enough to pot the ball. That's only my take on things. Meanwhile, the grass grows and the lawn needs attention......

Hahaha,, holy moly. I have never seen a shot like that on TV, been watching snooks for 40 yrs.

Maybe on a bucket pocket pool table because those tables would gobble up a melon. .

see Travis's reply, that is what I (and TD) am looking for, will try to find that video
and is this not what started this whole run-around? :biggrin:

Kyren Wilson's shot on the red is that very shot. You can see clearly the red change it's path after contact.

[Little Reggie]

see Travis's reply, that is what I (and TD) am looking for, will try to find that video
and is this not what started this whole run-around? :biggrin:

Good luck, hopefully a video can be found. If not, I'm sure someone here can make one.

[DeanH]

see Travis's reply, that is what I (and TD) am looking for, will try to find that video
and is this not what started this whole run-around? :biggrin:

Good luck, hopefully a video can be found. If not, I'm sure someone here can make one.

apologies, Kyren's shot was ball impeding potting angle, not impeding pocket
https://youtu.be/e5T1ZRPkeo0?t=3m9s

[Little Reggie]

apologies, Kyren's shot was ball impeding potting angle, not impeding pocket
https://youtu.be/e5T1ZRPkeo0?t=3m9s

That red kicked and swerved a bit, amazing. Thanks for that, it seems to prove that the OB can be kicked and arced on a nap clothed snooker table, the way that the pool table video shows the same with pool balls and a faster cloth (as per Rimmer's video). Perhaps an above the shot camera angle can add to the visual effect, particularly using a marked/spotted white as the OB but this video of Mr Wilson closes the debate for me. I have turned 100% from my previous viewpoint. Wow. Got to try this shot later.

[vmax]

I guess relevancy is important and while I take my hat off to Mr Stark on most things I believe Rimmer's video to be the one to base a discussion on. It appears that imparted spin and throw/kick aren't exclusive and can act in accordance to make the OB do two strange things simultaneously. Amazing.

The player didn't compensate his aiming so that's cut induced spin as it's not a dead on full ball contact. I filmed myself on sunday with a mates smartphone, about fifteen minutes in all of me playing lots of side shots with my snooker size pool balls so all spin is visible. Will upload the video at the weekend, every single shot played with side, many different outcomes according to pace of shot, compensating aim and not compensating aim, with and against the nap, warts and all, no editing and I did get a bad contact as well so all avenues covered.
Lots to talk about and discuss so I will start a different thread.

[Little Reggie]

Goodness, I envisage many beavers at work and many, many logjams.

[bluenose1940]

Is this of any interest at all?


Difficult pot_1.jpg

[blahblah01]

Is this of any interest at all?


[ATTACH]18862[/ATTACH]

I think that that is what most of these 53 pages is about

Some believe it, and some don't....

[Little Reggie]

Is this of any interest at all?


[ATTACH]18862[/ATTACH]

That's spot on, it's a kick effect as Mr Stark says. But I believe they're arguing about whether the OB then swerves as well and whether the CB hit the OB full contact or not, and how straight it travelled in various videos. I think they want a video of a straight travelling CB that hits the OB full contact on an unpotable angle, kicks the OB and makes the OB swerve if possible into the pocket as well. Not much then!