What do people think of Roy Chisholm's Snooker Secrets?

[travisbickle]

j6...that's not what is being talked about here. Let me set a simple scenario and see if you think you can do it and if so please tell me how because I have never seen this happen and I wouldn't know how to do it.

Scenario...you mis-hit a safety shot too thin and fluke a ball from a carom at the top end of the table and end up with the cueball going into and out of baulk and ending up directly behind the blue ball into the middle pocket and about 18" behind the blue but unfortunately there's another red ball blocking the blue ball so it will not go past that intervening red is a straight line and into the middle pocket. You can see the outer portion of the middle horn from the blue ball. So people on this string are saying that using side and slow pace they can bend the blue ball around the red and with a slight kick onto the inner edge of the middle horn and the induced side on the blue ball will drop it into the middle pocket as it catches the inner part of the horn. The blue ball has bent around the red and its path has been altered by perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" by induced side (like a mini-swerve).

This often happens with the black ball where there is a red between the black and the pocket blocking a direct pot on the black. I have never seen any player be able to bend the black ball around the blocking red but I am open to someone telling me how to bend an object ball using side, slow pace and an induced kick. If this was possible I figure the pros would be using it all the time.

Every player has used side in order to alter the path of the cueball and as the commentators say 'throw the object ball into the pocket', but the object ball still travels in a straight line, not bending into the pocket. I have seen an OB turn on a table with rolls or dirt on the table but I've never seen a player use this effect to his advantage. Perhaps the old billiards players with heavier balls and heavier cloth could do this using induced side but again I've never seen a write-up about it anywhere but on this string.

Lol! I don't think anyone has been saying they can make the object ball swerve, I definitely haven't that's for sure. All I said to you I can pot Karnham's black full ball, which I can

[blahblah01]

So who brought up this swerving OB thing? As I don't think it's helping

I thought we were just saying an angle can be made, OB turned over etc ie helping side on the CB changes the path of the OB.

[Terry Davidson]

Lol! I don't think anyone has been saying they can make the object ball swerve, I definitely haven't that's for sure. All I said to you I can pot Karnham's black full ball, which I can

It was said the path of the OB can be changed by using side, slow pace and inducing a little kick. I have never seen this done and would love to know how to do it. When you say you could pot Karnham's black full-ball I suspect you may be using a full-ball aim however with the side your CB will actually contact the black at the normal potting point, or BOB if you like. Remember the ball is 2-1?16" and the pocket is normally 3.5" so there is room for error.

Your slow pace with drag will bend the cueball path back onto the black, so if you were on the green side of the table like Jack then you would aim the cue to the left side of the black and put on RH side and with the slow pace the cueball would travel to the right of the line of aim and hit the black at the same potting point that would be used on a centre-ball stroke.

[Terry Davidson]

So who brought up this swerving OB thing? As I don't think it's helping

I thought we were just saying an angle can be made, OB turned over etc ie helping side on the CB changes the path of the OB.

Someone said Jack induced LH side on the black.
Someone else said they can change the path of the object ball using side. Well DUH...we all know if you use side the cueball with initially push out and then if the pace is slow enough or the shot long enough the CB will eventually bend back into the object ball to hit the correct potting point. The object ball is not 'thrown' onto the correct line of the pot, it's actually hit on the correct line or BOB.

Induced spin is not of practical use as it's so slight.

[travisbickle]

It was said the path of the OB can be changed by using side, slow pace and inducing a little kick. I have never seen this done and would love to know how to do it. When you say you could pot Karnham's black full-ball I suspect you may be using a full-ball aim however with the side your CB will actually contact the black at the normal potting point, or BOB if you like. Remember the ball is 2-1?16" and the pocket is normally 3.5" so there is room for error.

Your slow pace with drag will bend the cueball path back onto the black, so if you were on the green side of the table like Jack then you would aim the cue to the left side of the black and put on RH side and with the slow pace the cueball would travel to the right of the line of aim and hit the black at the same potting point that would be used on a centre-ball stroke.

The Wilson vid shows you everything you need to know. How I play the Karmham black would be drag/right hand side (5 O clock) with slight deceleration.

[blahblah01]

Yes the path ie line can be changed as CB side affects the OB. I've never seen the OB noticeably etc\swerve etc.

What do you consider Helping Side to mean?

[j6uk]

tel, i wont be able to keep up with the replys but im sure you and many here are very familiar with all the shots in the vid..
but over the years these shots iv called the thank you ones, for all the players iv played that have thanked me for showing them they can carry on their break by simply deifying the angle with a touch of side. many went on to make their first 50 and beat their highest break.

[Terry Davidson]

The Wilson vid shows you everything you need to know. How I play the Karmham black would be drag/right hand side (7 O clock) with slight deceleration.

Did you mean 5 o'clock? Why would you play it like that considering the cueball has to move up the table about a foot or so.

[DG GIBERT]

so if one plays clockwise spin on the CB this may impart anti clockwise spin on the OB.

Even between two highly polished surfaces, grease and dirt might help to impart some spin I guess

The bigger question is, playing the shot in Australia, would you have the opposite effect?

[Terry Davidson]

Yes the path ie line can be changed as CB side affects the OB. I've never seen the OB noticeably etc\swerve etc.

What do you consider Helping Side to mean?

Helping side is something some players like vmax and Willie Thorne believe helps them to pot better and as they have confidence in using it then obviously it does help them but it's not required and will change the line of the CB after contact from a normal centre-hit cueball. That's all it does.

Steve Davis used centre-ball striking as much as possible and Willie Thorne used helping side. Hendry also used centre-ball. Compare their records.

[travisbickle]

Did you mean 5 o'clock? Why would you play it like that considering the cueball has to move up the table about a foot or so.

Yes 5 o clock

[tedisbill]

Terry... Did you see my video?

https://youtu.be/90auRcpMRS8

[Terry Davidson]

so if one plays clockwise spin on the CB this may impart anti clockwise spin on the OB.

Even between two highly polished surfaces, grease and dirt might help to impart some spin I guess

The bigger question is, playing the shot in Australia, would you have the opposite effect?

Who knows? Never been to Australia but I've heard a sink drains in the opposite direction so maybe you're on to something

[blahblah01]

And that is all that is being claimed.

[Catch 22]

j6...that's not what is being talked about here. Let me set a simple scenario and see if you think you can do it and if so please tell me how because I have never seen this happen and I wouldn't know how to do it.

Scenario...you mis-hit a safety shot too thin and fluke a ball from a carom at the top end of the table and end up with the cueball going into and out of baulk and ending up directly behind the blue ball into the middle pocket and about 18" behind the blue but unfortunately there's another red ball blocking the blue ball so it will not go past that intervening red is a straight line and into the middle pocket. You can see the outer portion of the middle horn from the blue ball. So people on this string are saying that using side and slow pace they can bend the blue ball around the red and with a slight kick onto the inner edge of the middle horn and the induced side on the blue ball will drop it into the middle pocket as it catches the inner part of the horn. The blue ball has bent around the red and its path has been altered by perhaps 1/4" to 1/2" by induced side (like a mini-swerve).

This often happens with the black ball where there is a red between the black and the pocket blocking a direct pot on the black. I have never seen any player be able to bend the black ball around the blocking red but I am open to someone telling me how to bend an object ball using side, slow pace and an induced kick. If this was possible I figure the pros would be using it all the time.

Every player has used side in order to alter the path of the cueball and as the commentators say 'throw the object ball into the pocket', but the object ball still travels in a straight line, not bending into the pocket. I have seen an OB turn on a table with rolls or dirt on the table but I've never seen a player use this effect to his advantage. Perhaps the old billiards players with heavier balls and heavier cloth could do this using induced side but again I've never seen a write-up about it anywhere but on this string.

I don't think anyone is saying you can "bend" the object ball . They are saying that if you can't hit point of contact on the OB because another ball is in the the way . Then you can alter hit the OB thicker with side and create the angle .

Scenario ...the black is on its spot and there is a red below it almost touching . You've landed low on the red and want to pot it into the corner ...however the black is stopping you from contacting the part of the red you need to hit and you can only see enough of the red to hit the knuckle .
If you hit as much of the red as you can but using side then you can make the pot as the side allows you to hit the ball thcker than the true contact point while changing the angle the white takes .
It's not bending the OB is just setting the OB off at a steeper angle

an old gent in our club that plays English billiards showed me this when I first started . They use it while playing nursery cannons as playing with one side moves the three balls apart and the other side keeps them together . It's amazing to watch . And we are talking about balks that are only about 5 mm apart and played soft enough to have the OBs only move a few mm .