What do people think of Roy Chisholm's Snooker Secrets?

[itsnoteasy]

That was hard to watch - visual sweeps and half ball pivots and all that language ... Ah yes I get you - so you think this approach line aiming you think is sort of like CTE for snooker - maybe he just stumbled onto the idea and made it his own years ago. I had a go at something like this before. There was a guy called John who makes cue cases that had a row with Mr BS over it. I found It did actually work well for certain shots.

I was going to say don't watch any of the rest of it apart from the times I put up as you may lose the will to live lol.
On his video on YouTube I asked him if it was just a pivot as his hips moved out the way, it pulled his cue on line and he said yes, straight away I knew it was just a form of CTE and this is what we discussed but he didn't think it was, even though it is lol. This is very hard to set up as a system imo, it depends how much you pivot, some who play with square feet to the shot will be completely different to those that play in a boxers stance and all different positions in between, so to say just point at the edge of the ob ball and pivot to the centre won't work and why pivot to the centre , considering he says no one can hit it( apart from John Foster obviously), why add more movement, how do you put your chest to the cue while you are moving it around trying to find the centre of the ball, it may work for stand up players but not for four contact players.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Oh well if you think bringing your cue in from the side is a good thing good luck to you. This is one of the worst game wrecking threads I have ever read on here. Again if you can't hit centre you can't hit off centre either so what's the point.

That is not actually true. Although it is counter intuitive, it is easier to strike the CB exactly where you are intending to when playing with side. I don't know why this is, but it is. Hitting the very centre of the CB consistently is exceptionally difficult, far more difficult than hitting one side of the CB consistently.

AZB aficionados will be well aware of a Touch of Inside, a technique old school pool players used to play with to widen the margin of error. Basically, it meant playing every shot with a small amount of check side. The systems roy seems to be advocating appear to be a variation on a few pool alignment methods - centre to edge (CTE) and the like. Best avoided IMO.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

If they knew about side then they would, and if they don't then walk away as they don't know what they're talking about. The harder you hit a shot with side then the more the cue ball deflects, the harder a reverse side screw shot is played the more the cue ball swerves across the cloth and when these effects are compensated for aiming outside the pocket sometimes is a must.

I've found that trace amounts of side are simply not worth it, half a tip from centre ball does nothing significant and you might as well play centre ball, a full tip and your playing with side and then you'll see the difference and will need to compensate your aiming.

Too much coaching will stunt your growth.

As will a severe lack of understanding about what happens when balls collide.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Mr.Chisolm is an old bloke and obviously learned to play with the old heavy crystalate balls, his method is one that many used back in the 50's and 60's when screw was a lot harder and run through with side was the way to go.
A team mate of mine (now 74 years old and highest break of 98) uses this method and sincerely believes that you make the angle according to how much side you put on it. He can cut in anything using this method but comes unstuck when dead straight as there is no angle to make and he simply can't cue centre of the cue ball.

I've mentioned many times before that to play with side you aim thicker and the actual contact is thinner, so aiming outside the pocket is a must at times, other times it's one jaw or the other, and once you get used to your cues deflection of the cue ball it isn't as hard as some people make out.

I heard Stephen Hendry in commentary, when a player was playing the yellow from the green side of the table to split the reds, say that he was aiming the yellow to hit the side cushion about three inches before the pocket with left hand side on the cue ball. Now how can a 7 time world champion be wrong about such a fundamental aspect of the game while all the centre ball coaches are saying don't use side until you can make a 50+ break.

I don't get your stephen Hendry point? It's completely obvious players are going to use side on that shot - how else could they get into the pack?

Regardless, Hendry is CLUELESS when it comes to what happens when balls collide. His commentary is cringe.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

That's because he plays right handed, if you played left handed you would always line up to the other side. It's just awful to watch, you can see him fishing around with his cue once he's down looking for the line , he then plays centre ball anyway but says push the cue to the left, but I think he means push it straight through it just points to the left because that's the line.
It's more like a CTE or more precisely an ETC aiming system that the nine ballers use but I could be wrong maybe big shot will know , he knows a lot about pool aiming systems.

Lol. Should have finished reading the thread! Sounds very CTEish, but i can't be bothered to watch it to find out. There are loads of these systems in American pool. They ain't for me...

That said, i play with side on virtually every shot - it's joyous when you master it: horrendous when you don't.

And for the love of god, will you people EVER understand the HUGE effect throw has on the game?

Cut induced throw. Spin induced throw. Learn them people.

Every shot:

1. Deflection
2. Swerve
3. Throw.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

It looks to me that he's worked out where to point the tip of his cue as he's getting down so that when he moves his hips to the side the butt of the cue drops onto the line of aim and the cue pivots in his bridge so that the tip addresses centre cue ball.
This is something that those who take the cue off the line as they get down might find very useful.
Trump pivots on the delivery stroke, which is something no coach can ever endorse, yet it works for him.
We don't all do it the same but the tip and the butt of the cue must be on the line of aim, or parallel to it when using side otherwise you're striking across the line.

You are describing back hand English. Pivoting/striking across the ball cancels deflection. Many players do this without realising, which is why they get confused when talk turns to deflection...some players locate the pivot point on their shafts and mark it with a black dot.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

That was hard to watch - visual sweeps and half ball pivots and all that language ... Ah yes I get you - so you think this approach line aiming you think is sort of like CTE for snooker - maybe he just stumbled onto the idea and made it his own years ago. I had a go at something like this before. There was a guy called John who makes cue cases that had a row with Mr BS over it. I found It did actually work well for certain shots.

The legend, the poster boy for CTE, Mr John Barton.

https://youtu.be/Z_IGgAuUVpY

[itsnoteasy]

That is not actually true. Although it is counter intuitive, it is easier to strike the CB exactly where you are intending to when playing with side. I don't know why this is, but it is. Hitting the very centre of the CB consistently is exceptionally difficult, far more difficult than hitting one side of the CB consistently.

AZB aficionados will be well aware of a Touch of Inside, a technique old school pool players used to play with to widen the margin of error. Basically, it meant playing every shot with a small amount of check side. The systems roy seems to be advocating appear to be a variation on a few pool alignment methods - centre to edge (CTE) and the like. Best avoided IMO.

I think folk think centre is a tiny spec right smack bang in the middle of the cue ball, miss that spec and you miss, centre has quite a big margin of error( relatively) if you then add in the size of the pocket there's an even bigger margin of error .
These fellows don't seem to find it hard to hit centre , ones an amateur, one an ex pro now a coach, and the other is some fella called Davis who ever he is.
https://youtu.be/WqwhjwaFMl4
https://youtu.be/027aQj_1Yb8
https://youtu.be/QlMxPngOYos

[itsnoteasy]

Can't be bothered with a new thread and since this fella hits centre I may as well stick it in here, bit does anyone know this lad, not seen this on YouTube before, looks like he can play a bit, quite a compact action, not much to go wrong with it.
https://youtu.be/3dxsPVvpoZM

[markz]

I think folk think centre is a tiny spec right smack bang in the middle of the cue ball, miss that spec and you miss, centre has quite a big margin of error( relatively) if you then add in the size of the pocket there's an even bigger margin of error .
These fellows don't seem to find it hard to hit centre , ones an amateur, one an ex pro now a coach, and the other is some fella called Davis who ever he is.
https://youtu.be/WqwhjwaFMl4
https://youtu.be/027aQj_1Yb8
https://youtu.be/QlMxPngOYos

Imagine how good Steve Davis could have been if he'd spent all those hours playing up and down the spots with a touch of side lol

[itsnoteasy]

Imagine how good Steve Davis could have been if he'd spent all those hours playing up and down the spots with a touch of side lol

Aye a wasted talent that's for sure Mark.

[markz]

Aye a wasted talent that's for sure Mark.

Here's Barry Stark's latest video off his YouTube channel. It's great how he keeps it simple and he only did this routine as he watched Ronnie doing it before a tournament.

https://youtu.be/k4q5-8CKrq4

[itsnoteasy]

Here's Barry Stark's latest video off his YouTube channel. It's great how he keeps it simple and he only did this routine as he watched Ronnie doing it before a tournament.

https://youtu.be/k4q5-8CKrq4

He's good isn't he, straight forward, easy to understand and seems a really nice bloke. I would never have guessed at Ronnie doing something like that, I always had it in my mind he was just doing 147 line ups of some sort lol, just shows even the best are doing the simple things to keep that action honed.

[Byrom]

I don't get your stephen Hendry point? It's completely obvious players are going to use side on that shot - how else could they get into the pack?

Regardless, Hendry is CLUELESS when it comes to what happens when balls collide. His commentary is cringe.

I understand about what you mean with your terminology back hand English, deflection, cut induced throw etc and a lot of players in snooker do know a lot about the game - just because they cant put a name to the skills they have does not make them any less skilled when it comes to actually doing it on a table.

I think you probably do Mr Hendry a little disservice - Maybe he does know and the reason he does not talk about it is perhaps because he is keeping it simple for the majority of watching public. When it comes to doing it (barring the shambles in the seniors) He must know what happens better than most when balls collide but is perhaps he is more kinesthetic. Basically he knows by doing it, same as lots of great snooker players. Not many pro's are very clever from my understanding of meeting them. Maybe with the exception of the likes of Dominic Dale or Ebdon but all of them are highly skilled at all aspects on a snooker table. It ain't important to know as much as it is important to be able to do.

Lewis Hamilton probably could not write about motor racing but sure as hell can drive round a track pretty fast.

[vmax4steve]

I don't get your stephen Hendry point? It's completely obvious players are going to use side on that shot - how else could they get into the pack?

That's because you're trolling me, you haven't read the thread and simply jump on all my posts seeking to demeen them.

My Stephen Hendry point was for Alabadi who doesn't believe you should aim the object ball outside the pocket when playing with side.
And who are you to say that Hendry doesn't understand, how the hell do you know that ?

You are describing back hand English. Pivoting/striking across the ball cancels deflection. Many players do this without realising, which is why they get confused when talk turns to deflection...some players locate the pivot point on their shafts and mark it with a black dot.

No I'm not, Roy Chisholm aims his cue outside the line of aim when stepping into the shot and then the cue pivots on his bridge as he moves his hips to the side and the butt comes onto the line as the tip addresses centre cue ball. If this is CTE then I don't really give a damn and I doubt he does either.

If you're striking across the line of aim then you're deflecting the cue ball. If you've aimed centre cue ball and then pivoted to strike with side you're effectively playing down the wrong line of aim and deflecting the cue ball onto the line of aim, you're not cancelling deflection at all, you're using it.