Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[Ramon]

whatever, Ramon...

I'm done with you (again)

stop eating crayons

if that's what you want, it's okey with me. btw, i said something about his dady playing against selby. you and your friend suddenly get a blood pressure of 600 and both starting insulting bunch of people here.
And i'm the one who's eating crayons ??
Wow !!!!

*you gonna need a thicker skin bud. God knows how you gonna make it in this crazy world.

Anyway , I'm not gonna say anything more regarding this thread. If that makes you happy , than i'm happy too .


Enjoy your day !!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Only have 20% charge on my phone so I'm not reading all that now.
About TD shots though. He missed every time because he didn't allow for the throw, nothing else,only this.

I'll give you the shortened version mate:

something about deflection - check.
Something about swerving back into BOB - check
Something about the triangle - check.
Something about the green pocket - check.
Something about the nap - check.
He definitely doesn't pivot - check.
He's right and we're wrong - check.

Oh, and absolutely nothing about the physics of the shot - quadruple check.

[OmaMiesta]

Wow this thread is still alive and going strong

[jonny66]

Just another 40 pages to go, and Godwin's law remains intact.

[Cue crafty]

Just another 40 pages to go, and Godwin's law remains intact.

Don't start dictating Jonny. Lol 

[travisbickle]

This shows your ignorance travis, we're both swerving onto the correct line from the initial deflection, and as the cue ball is approaching the OB from where it deflected to the shot is either slightly thicker, so easier to hold the cue ball close to the line of aim, or slightly thinner, so easier to move the cue ball away from the line of aim. This is helping side for position purposes, it doesn't help the pot it helps to get better position. Just like you I don't aim for BOB but that's where the cue ball goes only you don't see it, you think you hit what you're aiming at but seeing as the cue ball always deflects and swerves when side is applied to it, how the hell are you aiming thicker/thinner and hitting what you're aiming at ?

I play that very shot several times in my video at varying speeds, the power ones where biggie thinks I'm pivoting shows just how much my aiming is offset to allow for the initial deflection. On those dead straight power shots to the green pocket I'm actually aiming to miss the left hand jaw and the cue ball deflects straight to near enough BOB to pot the ball, no swerve at that pace. My bridge is about 12 inches from the cue ball and as I'm aiming to miss the left hand jaw it looks like I'm pivoting but I'm not. All those so called pivots that biggie thinks he sees are because I'm aiming to miss a dead straight shot and my cue is parallel to an offset line of aim, but I guess that's too difficult for the bloke to understand so he sees what he wants to see.


Terry wasn't compensating his aiming enough or too much as it's a shot he very rarely uses but he got it in the end. I do not aim for correct BOB when applying sidespin, I aim to allow for the deflection and swerve I know I going to get, it's very small on the shot Terry was demonstrating. Basically you aim for one jaw over the other depending which side you're applying in that particular shot.
Watch the predator video again and realise what you're actually doing when you're aiming thicker/thinner than the actual angle to pot the ball.

The cue ball initially deflects offline opposite to the sidespin applied, when the sidespin changes to the 30 degree axis it stops deflecting and rolls straight and then, depending on the pace of the shot and the direction of the spin to the lay of the nap, it swerves onto a different line. It does this every single time side is applied to it whether trace side or a full on raised butt swerve shot, the only difference is the amount of deflection and swerve you get, a tiny bit or a lot or many differing amounts inbetween because the sidespin is gripping the cloth and pulling the cue ball offline.

This is the fundamental of using sidespin, nothing else is happening unless you get a bad contact and then anything can happen just like it can with a bad contact when not using side. Too much friction between the balls and a bad contact like Wilson got is no basis for what happens when balls collide, oh dear I've just used your mantra, sorry!

Anyone can prove this to themselves by playing a sidespin shot along a straight edge of some kind that the cue ball will hug, in effect cancelling out any swerve, to contact BOB on an OB, who's outside edge to the pocket is free of the straight edge, to pot centre pocket. If SIT happens then the OB will miss or go to the side of the pocket. If it goes centre pocket then the spin on the cue ball has had no effect.
I did this using the edge of the triangle full of reds to stop it moving, bit tricky getting the cue ball to hug the edge as you need to counteract the initial deflection opposite to the side you apply, but once you get that sorted and the cue ball hugs the straight edge without leaving it all the way to the OB then you'll see the true result.
I played a half ball green into it's own pocket using left hand side spinning against the nap as that means less swerve and was easier to control. I used extreme side, trace side and inbetween the two and got the same result for all three shots.

Oh and to satisfy the SIT devotees also set one up where BOB on the OB is actually outside the far jaw of the pocket and see if you can throw it in the pocket. Make sure you hit it at the correct pace and at the correct angle though or they'll cry foul.

I know what I do vmax as I've played this way all my life and it's definitely not the same as what you & TD that's for sure.

I have show you plenty of examples of OB throw and have received a lot of PM's on here all saying they don't get how you and Tel don't see what's happening.

But if you're not seeing it on your own shots when you're right behind the shot it really is no surprise you're not seeing it anywhere else.

All these long winded posts you both write in numerous threads on this site and yet you both can't see the most simplest of things.

Alsolutely crazy beyond believe!

[Terry Davidson]

For both the SIT believers and the regular players on here I have some questions for the SIT experts who say I don't understand anything so I'm asking them to educate me. First of all a wish: I wish Ramon would use English in a way we can all understand because I'm having a difficult time seeing what he's trying to say.

So far we have had videos from Travis, vmax, Terry, Jason, runningside and Oma. EVERY ONE of us missed some shots when attempting to display object ball throw which will throw in an otherwise unpottable ball. Think about that, EVERY ONE missed shots. So if you don't understand SIT then don't use it until you do.

The SIT experts say it disappears with too much power and/or too much spin. My question is, 'how much is too much'? It appears as far as power goes and looking at Travis's shots it has to dead weight to the pocket and no more. Jason's and Oma's shots used a lot more than pocket weight but both have claimed it was SIT that potted the ball and not one of the experts mentioned pace of the shots however the did say my pace was too much because my ball went further than dead weight. That leaves side spin...is it no more that 2 tip widths from centre, does it always have to be coupled with drag?

As Travis is the resident expert, please Travis, would you educate us all in exactly how to play using SIT so we can all learn, including obviously vmax and myself who are new to this thing and haven't yet learned how to deal with and understand object ball throw even though both of us have demonstrated it but of course not to your satisfaction. To Biggy I can say no I don't understand the physics of it and can't be arsed to learn.

Thank you lord for all these SIT experts making my life more complicated.

[Terry Davidson]

I know what I do vmax as I've played this way all my life and it's definitely not the same as what you & TD that's for sure.

I have show you plenty of examples of OB throw and have received a lot of PM's on here all saying they don't get how you and Tel don't see what's happening.

But if you're not seeing it on your own shots when you're right behind the shot it really is no surprise you're not seeing it anywhere else.

All these long winded posts you both write in numerous threads on this site and yet you both can't see the most simplest of things.

Alsolutely crazy beyond believe!

So what you're saying is because vmax and myself don't see and understand what you do then we are both 'absolutely crazy beyond belief'. Thank you very much for those kind words. Disagreeing with you is not a crime nor the problems of a troubled mind.

[Ramon]

For both the SIT believers and the regular players on here I have some questions for the SIT experts who say I don't understand anything so I'm asking them to educate me. First of all a wish: I wish Ramon would use English in a way we can all understand because I'm having a difficult time seeing what he's trying to say.

So far we have had videos from Travis, vmax, Terry, Jason, runningside and Oma. EVERY ONE of us missed some shots when attempting to display object ball throw which will throw in an otherwise unpottable ball. Think about that, EVERY ONE missed shots. So if you don't understand SIT then don't use it until you do.

The SIT experts say it disappears with too much power and/or too much spin. My question is, 'how much is too much'? It appears as far as power goes and looking at Travis's shots it has to dead weight to the pocket and no more. Jason's and Oma's shots used a lot more than pocket weight but both have claimed it was SIT that potted the ball and not one of the experts mentioned pace of the shots however the did say my pace was too much because my ball went further than dead weight. That leaves side spin...is it no more that 2 tip widths from centre, does it always have to be coupled with drag?

As Travis is the resident expert, please Travis, would you educate us all in exactly how to play using SIT so we can all learn, including obviously vmax and myself who are new to this thing and haven't yet learned how to deal with and understand object ball throw even though both of us have demonstrated it but of course not to your satisfaction. To Biggy I can say no I don't understand the physics of it and can't be arsed to learn.

Thank you lord for all these SIT experts making my life more complicated.

we do'nt say power. Terry !!
in the game of snooker you do'nt need power.
it's your timing.
a decent player like you, should know that.
anyway, carry on* !!
please !!

I enjoy reading !!

[dan_ormerod]

For both the SIT believers and the regular players on here I have some questions for the SIT experts who say I don't understand anything so I'm asking them to educate me. First of all a wish: I wish Ramon would use English in a way we can all understand because I'm having a difficult time seeing what he's trying to say.

So far we have had videos from Travis, vmax, Terry, Jason, runningside and Oma. EVERY ONE of us missed some shots when attempting to display object ball throw which will throw in an otherwise unpottable ball. Think about that, EVERY ONE missed shots. So if you don't understand SIT then don't use it until you do.

The SIT experts say it disappears with too much power and/or too much spin. My question is, 'how much is too much'? It appears as far as power goes and looking at Travis's shots it has to dead weight to the pocket and no more. Jason's and Oma's shots used a lot more than pocket weight but both have claimed it was SIT that potted the ball and not one of the experts mentioned pace of the shots however the did say my pace was too much because my ball went further than dead weight. That leaves side spin...is it no more that 2 tip widths from centre, does it always have to be coupled with drag?

As Travis is the resident expert, please Travis, would you educate us all in exactly how to play using SIT so we can all learn, including obviously vmax and myself who are new to this thing and haven't yet learned how to deal with and understand object ball throw even though both of us have demonstrated it but of course not to your satisfaction. To Biggy I can say no I don't understand the physics of it and can't be arsed to learn.

Thank you lord for all these SIT experts making my life more complicated.

I don't understand the physics and I obviously try to avoid side when playing snooker but with pool I was subconciously doing this and it took this thread for me to realise what I was doing and I can only get a reaction when it is pocket weight, any more and I only get minimal reaction and not enough to throw it.

I can also get the throw with or without drag.

Travis or big shot may be able to explain it properly but for me it absolutely has to be pocket weight.

[Terry Davidson]

we do'nt say power. Terry !!
in the game of snooker you do'nt need power.
it's your timing.
a decent player like you, should know that.
anyway, carry on* !!
please !!

I enjoy reading !!

OK Ramon, let's call it 'pace'. Will that do? By the way almost everyone refers to 'power' and an example would be Nic Barrow's training documentation where he divides cueball control into H for height on the cueball and P1-10 for power of the stroke. Timing is a lot different than power and timing is critical for any amount of power. But of course you knew that didn't you.

[Terry Davidson]

I don't understand the physics and I obviously try to avoid side when playing snooker but with pool I was subconciously doing this and it took this thread for me to realise what I was doing and I can only get a reaction when it is pocket weight, any more and I only get minimal reaction and not enough to throw it.

I can also get the throw with or without drag.

Travis or big shot may be able to explain it properly but for me it absolutely has to be pocket weight.

I found that too but pocket weight for a pink would have more pace than pocket weight for the black, so I really don't understand where the demarcation line is. How do I and the other players on here know exactly what to do when attempting to use SIT?

[pottr]

Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

Trevor's Axiom!

Still waiting for Ramon to name a venue...

Had a knock tonight with young Edge tonight... I'm not as rusty as first thought

[travisbickle]

For both the SIT believers and the regular players on here I have some questions for the SIT experts who say I don't understand anything so I'm asking them to educate me. First of all a wish: I wish Ramon would use English in a way we can all understand because I'm having a difficult time seeing what he's trying to say.

So far we have had videos from Travis, vmax, Terry, Jason, runningside and Oma. EVERY ONE of us missed some shots when attempting to display object ball throw which will throw in an otherwise unpottable ball. Think about that, EVERY ONE missed shots. So if you don't understand SIT then don't use it until you do.

The SIT experts say it disappears with too much power and/or too much spin. My question is, 'how much is too much'? It appears as far as power goes and looking at Travis's shots it has to dead weight to the pocket and no more. Jason's and Oma's shots used a lot more than pocket weight but both have claimed it was SIT that potted the ball and not one of the experts mentioned pace of the shots however the did say my pace was too much because my ball went further than dead weight. That leaves side spin...is it no more that 2 tip widths from centre, does it always have to be coupled with drag?

As Travis is the resident expert, please Travis, would you educate us all in exactly how to play using SIT so we can all learn, including obviously vmax and myself who are new to this thing and haven't yet learned how to deal with and understand object ball throw even though both of us have demonstrated it but of course not to your satisfaction. To Biggy I can say no I don't understand the physics of it and can't be arsed to learn.

Thank you lord for all these SIT experts making my life more complicated.

Yes you demonstrated it, but you didn't recognize it, neither did vmax.
Watch your 3rd video again closely and watch what happens to the black on nearly every shot you played.
After you have watched the video go and play the shots again, but adjust your aim accordingly (forget about hitting BOB) and see what happens.

[dan_ormerod]

I found that too but pocket weight for a pink would have more pace than pocket weight for the black, so I really don't understand where the demarcation line is. How do I and the other players on here know exactly what to do when attempting to use SIT?

I see what you mean Terry.

I couldn't really answer as like I said it's centre of the cueball pretty much all the time when playing snooker (apart from safety).

With pool the distances between the balls are very short so the most you are going to get is the equivalent of a black of it's spot.

I'm sure Travis or Big Shot will try to answer your question.