Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[j6uk]

Secondly , i disagree with your statement . Pro's do use side , albeit a very very small amount . A Pro showed me the shots , and it aided my game .

little gems of info are priceless, and can be a gear changer.

[travisbickle]

little gems of info are priceless, and can be a gear changer.

Game changer? If so, I agree
Some players just seem stuck in their ways.
Their lose I guess.

[throtts]

One of the bad things I noticed in snooker when I first started playing. None of the better / good players would give out tips or tricks of the trade on how to improve your game. Probably, because their upbringing in the game was the same. Playing a decent player who is willing share can get you to your decent standard so many years earlier than if your left to it. And I mean ""many years"".....

[travisbickle]

One of the bad things I noticed in snooker when I first started playing. None of the better / good players would give out tips or tricks of the trade on how to improve your game. Probably, because their upbringing in the game was the same. Playing a decent player who is willing share can get you to your decent standard so many years earlier than if your left to it. And I mean ""many years"".....

I agree.
Probably another reason why the game is dying over here.
I can't imagine it's the same story in China

[throtts]

The Chinese would help each other to improve without doubt. Nice dudes..Probably why there is so much talent out there.

[Terry Davidson]

The Chinese would help each other to improve without doubt. Nice dudes..Probably why there is so much talent out there.

It also helps in China where they have converted extra school gyms to billiard rooms and have teacher coaches. Anyone know of any schools in other countries who have tables in them for the students and a coach?

[Cue crafty]

It also helps in China where they have converted extra school gyms to billiard rooms and have teacher coaches. Anyone know of any schools in other countries who have tables in them for the students and a coach?

That is such a refreshingly wonderful thought. To imagine the green thinking around the game of snooker in that environment makes playing snooker in China a bucket list choice for me.

For now it will have to be the usual blowing the dust off the centuries old table at my local, but this is an invigorating thought and prospect. 🤔

[vmax]

Like I said, there is no point doing another video. I never said I could play the shot with left hand side as it's not a natural shot and pointless.

All I ever said was the CB pushed out a bit then swerves slightly back for the first few inches then holds the line until it contacts the red nowhere near correct BOB, which is clearly seen in the video.

No you didn't, you said it pushes out to the left but holds its line, you didn't mention any swerve at all, in fact you denied it happened unless you wanted it to LOL. You also said it was pointless because it had the wrong side to pot the ball, not that it wasn't a natural shot, it was I who said that, but I guess that predator video has shown you something you didn't see in my video or your own because you were so hung up on being right you weren't looking.

And nowhere near correct BOB is plain wrong, near enough to pot the OB in the side of the pocket is what I'm seeing frame by frame on my Nero Platinum 2017 video editing tool, and that's on my video, your video and all the other videos that pertain to show OB throw.
The only ones that don't are Wilsons' kick and my bad contact so I've yet to see evidence to the contrary, and a screen shot where the cue ball is at least an inch from contact is always going to show an alledged thicker contact on a shot that also isn't even straight so the OB red is also outside the pocket so a deliberate attempt to discredit me and Terry in my book.

We've had a regular ton maker on the forum (tedisbill) say he couldn't throw the OB into the pocket with a contact that was too thick and yet you can.

BTW if you're knocking in tons every week then you play at a great standard, so let us all know when you actually win something other than beat your mates eh!

[travisbickle]

No you didn't, you said it pushes out to the left but holds its line, you didn't mention any swerve at all, in fact you denied it happened unless you wanted it to LOL. You also said it was pointless because it had the wrong side to pot the ball, not that it wasn't a natural shot, it was I who said that, but I guess that predator video has shown you something you didn't see in my video or your own because you were so hung up on being right you weren't looking.

And nowhere near correct BOB is plain wrong, near enough to pot the OB in the side of the pocket is what I'm seeing frame by frame on my Nero Platinum 2017 video editing tool, and that's on my video, your video and all the other videos that pertain to show OB throw.
The only ones that don't are Wilsons' kick and my bad contact so I've yet to see evidence to the contrary, and a screen shot where the cue ball is at least an inch from contact is always going to show an alledged thicker contact on a shot that also isn't even straight so the OB red is also outside the pocket so a deliberate attempt to discredit me and Terry in my book.

We've had a regular ton maker on the forum (tedisbill) say he couldn't throw the OB into the pocket with a contact that was too thick and yet you can.

BTW if you're knocking in tons every week then you play at a great standard, so let us all know when you actually win something other than beat your mates eh!

Big shot is right about you I'm afraid...simply clueless!

[Terry Davidson]

Big shot is right about you I'm afraid...simply clueless!

Damn it, get over the damned insults and discuss this like civil people. In this instance I'm with vmax as I haven't yet seen any video that convinces me that in these swerve shots (or 'curve' shots) are nothing more than the cueball coming back to BOB or very near it so the balls can be potted into the side of the pocket. You believe you get up to around 15* of OB deflection but even your guru doesn't believe that. If this deflection is real then why can't it be done at more power with a higher spin. Ignoring the fact you have to aim-off when using side.

After seeing Nic's video I believe contact throw, otherwise called CIT by you, is something that does happen but again it's very minor and if it is happening it's automatically and unconsciously factored out by snooker players so it's of NO consequence. As for your SIT, I have seen nothing that convinces me it's real despite you and Mr. B.S.'s insulting remarks that have happened just because neither vmax or I believe this actually is happening. Stop motion video proves us right and I would correct my initial statement and say the OB does not always take off at a pure 180* as with CIT it might take off at 179.5* or even 180.5* because that's what Nic's video showed. The roll in the table had more effect.

There have been over the years 1,000's of theories on billiards coming out of the U.S. for years and a lot of them are crap. Just because Dr. Dave can put up a video 'proving' his theories doesn't mean it has to convince me.

So you and Mr. B.S. and maybe Reggie if he's around should stop trying to preach your theories as you sound exactly the same as a born-again Christian who can't stand anyone else within earshot (or keyboard shot) not being a born-again Christian. People get bored hearing the same stuff they don't believe all the time and turn off so you're not doing yourself any favours.

[j6uk]

Damn it, get over the damned insults and discuss this like civil people. In this instance I'm with vmax as I haven't yet seen any video that convinces me that in these swerve shots (or 'curve' shots) are nothing more than the cueball coming back to BOB or very near it so the balls can be potted into the side of the pocket. You believe you get up to around 15* of OB deflection but even your guru doesn't believe that. If this deflection is real then why can't it be done at more power with a higher spin. Ignoring the fact you have to aim-off when using side.

After seeing Nic's video I believe contact throw, otherwise called CIT by you, is something that does happen but again it's very minor and if it is happening it's automatically and unconsciously factored out by snooker players so it's of NO consequence. As for your SIT, I have seen nothing that convinces me it's real despite you and Mr. B.S.'s insulting remarks that have happened just because neither vmax or I believe this actually is happening. Stop motion video proves us right and I would correct my initial statement and say the OB does not always take off at a pure 180* as with CIT it might take off at 179.5* or even 180.5* because that's what Nic's video showed. The roll in the table had more effect.

There have been over the years 1,000's of theories on billiards coming out of the U.S. for years and a lot of them are crap. Just because Dr. Dave can put up a video 'proving' his theories doesn't mean it has to convince me.

So you and Mr. B.S. and maybe Reggie if he's around should stop trying to preach your theories as you sound exactly the same as a born-again Christian who can't stand anyone else within earshot (or keyboard shot) not being a born-again Christian. People get bored hearing the same stuff they don't believe all the time and turn off so you're not doing yourself any favours.

so on your snooker journey youve never come across or been able to straighten the ob up by going outside the center of the white? or you did and you where just doing it subconsciously and making the shots?

[travisbickle]

Damn it, get over the damned insults and discuss this like civil people. In this instance I'm with vmax as I haven't yet seen any video that convinces me that in these swerve shots (or 'curve' shots) are nothing more than the cueball coming back to BOB or very near it so the balls can be potted into the side of the pocket. You believe you get up to around 15* of OB deflection but even your guru doesn't believe that. If this deflection is real then why can't it be done at more power with a higher spin. Ignoring the fact you have to aim-off when using side.

After seeing Nic's video I believe contact throw, otherwise called CIT by you, is something that does happen but again it's very minor and if it is happening it's automatically and unconsciously factored out by snooker players so it's of NO consequence. As for your SIT, I have seen nothing that convinces me it's real despite you and Mr. B.S.'s insulting remarks that have happened just because neither vmax or I believe this actually is happening. Stop motion video proves us right and I would correct my initial statement and say the OB does not always take off at a pure 180* as with CIT it might take off at 179.5* or even 180.5* because that's what Nic's video showed. The roll in the table had more effect.

There have been over the years 1,000's of theories on billiards coming out of the U.S. for years and a lot of them are crap. Just because Dr. Dave can put up a video 'proving' his theories doesn't mean it has to convince me.

So you and Mr. B.S. and maybe Reggie if he's around should stop trying to preach your theories as you sound exactly the same as a born-again Christian who can't stand anyone else within earshot (or keyboard shot) not being a born-again Christian. People get bored hearing the same stuff they don't believe all the time and turn off so you're not doing yourself any favours.

Whatever TD.

You can join vmax in the clueless club as far as I'm concerned.
Hitting correct BOB!!!
What the hell are you two seeing???

You can believe what you want I don't really care anymore.

[Terry Davidson]

Whatever TD.

You can join vmax in the clueless club as far as I'm concerned.
Hitting correct BOB!!!
What the hell are you two seeing???

You can believe what you want I don't really care anymore.

Good. My eyes aren't deceiving me and I doubt vmax's are either. Try placing your camera directly behind the pocket and have a go. I'm not asking you to publish the video, just take a look.

[Terry Davidson]

so on your snooker journey youve never come across or been able to straighten the ob up by going outside the center of the white? or you did and you where just doing it subconsciously and making the shots?

I'm not clear on what you're referring to j6. What do you mean by 'straightening the OB?' All I can think of is let's say a 3/4 black where I want to run the cueball up past the pink for a red to the middle or opposite corner. If I was on the green side of the table I would use top right-hand side to go 2 cushions and I would aim-off my cue to hit the black thicker but because there's some power in the shot I'm compensating for the initial throw of the cueball to the left because of the RH side.

Your question doesn't make sense to me as I believe you are curving the cueball into the spot directly opposite the pocket (or nearly so) if you do not use a lot of power. In the 3/4 example above if I didn't want the cueball to go anywhere nearer the cushion for some reason I would use drag with RH side, the drag slowing down the cueball enough so the RH side can bite. For this shot you aim a little thick on the black and slow speed allows the spin to take hold but I don't believe you are 'throwing' in the black with spin induced OB throw.

So give me an example shot where you would 'straighten the OB up'. I use this type of shot when I have to but it doesn't come up very often. Going around an intervening ball is not rocket science, just a combination of CB throw and then side directing the CB to the sweet spot on the OB.

When you straighten out the OB do you use power? I would say not because the only effect would be the initial throw on the CB with the speed not allowing the side to bite. According to B.S. this spin induced throw on the OB was first proposed by a Frenchman back in 1835 but you have to factor in the fact he was likely using heavier ivory balls and on a cloth which wouldn't have been as fine as the cloths we have today. Billiard players use side on almost every shot but they never use a lot of power on any of their shots whereas snooker players use a lot more power. In pool on a 9,8 or 7ft table there is also less power used on a napless cloth.

Does the nap and size make a difference? I would say it does and in snooker there are less of these shots coming up because there's less congestion and the player is not confined to just one, as in 9-ball, or a small number of object balls, as in 8-ball. Also, I've never seen or heard of any discussion on spin induced OB throw in relation to snooker except for the Karnham and Barry Stark videos but to me there was no proof of any SIT 'throwing' the OB in but rather CB throw and recovery.

With your obvious skills at snooker I doubt you even consciously make that aim-off adjustment for side. For the beginner or less skilled player it is dangerous to take on unless he has practiced a lot using side when he probably should have been working on a straight cue delivery.

[travisbickle]

Good. My eyes aren't deceiving me and I doubt vmax's are either. Try placing your camera directly behind the pocket and have a go. I'm not asking you to publish the video, just take a look.

https://youtu.be/EidPecrMULI

If I was hitting correct BOB you would only see 3/4 of the CB visible, instead you seeing a full ball contact.
I don't see how you and vmax are not seeing this