Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[travisbickle]

The bloke in the Dr. Dave videos pivots when applying side, cue parallel to the line of aim and it's different. Buy a cue and have a go yourself.



No he doesn't and neither do I. Trump addresses off centre to allow for a slight body movement on the delivery stroke, this was all worked out by me and shown to the forum a couple of years ago. Sure his cue pivots in his bridge hand on the delivery stroke but he doesn't address centre cue ball and then move the cue to apply side. He sometimes has to address outside the cue ball when applying extreme right hand side to compensate for his body movement, but the cue at the moment of impact with the cue ball is parallel to the line of aim.

You say I'm pivoting in my video but I'm not, that's simply compensating my aiming to allow for the deflection of the cue ball, in some shots I'm aiming to miss the pocket altogether because the cue ball deflects so much when striking it hard.
Again buy a cue and have a go yourself.

But you started a thread saying he does lol
And you do pivot btw

[vmax]

But what does SIT have to do with pivoting? Is screwback determined by pivoting? Or top spin?

The bloke in the Dr. Dave videos pivots when applying side, cue parallel to the line of aim and it's different. Buy a cue and have a go yourself.

Erm, judd trump pivots mate. And so does vmax!

No he doesn't and neither do I. Trump addresses off centre to allow for a slight body movement on the delivery stroke, this was all worked out by me and shown to the forum a couple of years ago. Sure his cue pivots in his bridge hand on the delivery stroke but he doesn't address centre cue ball and then move the cue to apply side. He sometimes has to address outside the cue ball when applying extreme right hand side to compensate for his body movement, but the cue at the moment of impact with the cue ball is parallel to the line of aim.

You say I'm pivoting in my video but I'm not, that's simply compensating my aiming to allow for the deflection of the cue ball, in some shots I'm aiming to miss the pocket altogether because the cue ball deflects so much when striking it hard.
Again buy a cue and have a go yourself.

[travisbickle]

Um, where have i mentioned pivoting in this? That is something you and vmax have added in an attempt to muddy the waters. And neither Travis nor i mentioned bending cue balls at all. Guess who came up with that rubbish - go on, have a go!

We, sir, stick to facts. Cold, hard, scientifically provable facts.

Looks like TD/vmax have finally seen sense.

Only took 2 months lol

[Ramon]

I'm pretty sure ramon is joking about the 16 break mate. There will be someone around here with a lower break than you, I'm sure.

But what does SIT have to do with pivoting? Is screwback determined by pivoting? Or top spin?

Nic barrow is one of the best coaches as well as a great player .
You ask that guy a question and see what happens . He's always open to any suggestion
from others and treat every one with respect without bashing some one and this , regardlees of his standard or what so ever .

When some one acting like a small kid . and this because of his pride.
The best thing you can do is deal with him as a kid and act like you're a 16 breaker, sitt down - relax - and laugh.

If some one asks me in a polite way what my highest break is, then i would be happy to answer him (wether he believes it or not).
Some one who comes here, start harassing others by making comments regarding there breaks - how many cues he has - or many other stuff which has nothing to do with this topic and using that kind of comments to get what he wants, and all of this just because he is unable to back up his case with strong arguments .
Than you gonna have to treat that person at his own standard and level .

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I consider myself to be an accomplished player just like you do of yourself and you know damned well we would both go for your shot in your video. Why are you bringing this up again? I already said I would normally pot it with running side.

Jason:

I couldn't find the post but somewhere you asked me to start sort of a vlog on snooker techniques and tactics and I was thinking of doing that until this string came along. I'm not willing to put myself out there as a whipping boy to be harassed, ridiculed, called monumentally stupid and all the rest of the trash talk especially from a (British) pool player who knows diddley squat about snooker. Not even aware normal snooker practice when using side is to compensate with aim rather than pivot the cue because he saw pivoting the cue 'proven' in an American video.

The sad thing is SIT probably actually exists, but under very precise and strict conditions and totally useless to snooker players, however these 2 pool players have tried to fold bending the cueball into the potting position into the SIT umbrella. It's very disappointing to see snooker players like Oma and Ramon getting sucked into this belief that SIT is the only reason they can pot a partially obstructed ball. Believe what you want but I don't believe SIT is a part of that because snooker players have been doing it for decades (but of course not calling it SIT). Cueball throw-off and curve is not a part of SIT and never has been.

I find it disappointing snooker players would rather believe someone like Hello Mr. Big Shot and Travis and are gullible enough to consider bending a cueball to be part of the SIT debate. I believe it's not a part of that at all despite the photos Ramon pushes out there 'proving' it. All snooker players need to know is it can be done and they can do it without knowing the physics behind it. Who cares?

So no vlog with people around who prefer to insult rather than debate.

Um, where have i mentioned pivoting in this? That is something you and vmax have added in an attempt to muddy the waters. And neither Travis nor i mentioned bending cue balls at all. Guess who came up with that rubbish - go on, have a go!

We, sir, stick to facts. Cold, hard, scientifically provable facts.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

This cannot be possible. Biggie got something wrong and believed the propaganda? He said that about Selby to me on the other string.

Really? Where?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Hang on Biggie, going back to Selby... the guy didn't start out as a pool player, that sir is a huge myth.

And not one spread by me. I said he was a pool player, i didn't say he started out as anything.

[throtts]

We do'nt use scrw back shot or stun shot all the time either .

In bigger breaks , screw , stun and stun run through are rife in amount. Stun run through lots.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I'm not sure if Barry Stark or someone close to him follows this thread, but he released a video about a week ago that explains a lot about what happens when playing these kind of shots. I think the most important thing is the right pace, which Barry mentions in the video.

https://youtu.be/edQIbjdFCms?t=228

When balls collide? He's nicked my catchphrase! Get yer own, starky.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

That 'adjustment' is the aim-off of the cue forced by hitting the cueball with side. In pool the players will line up centre-ball and pivot the cue on their bridge but if you did that in snooker it would be a disaster. The subjectiveness is what a player is more comfortable doing as in my case with a different approach to the blue position which in a frame I consider critical as I have to be on the correct side of it to continue the break.

Any use of side whether slow or hard will mean you have to adjust the line of aim of the cue. On a hard shot the CB stays on that thrown line but on a softer shot the CB recovers to the correct line of aim. This is how a snooker player gets around an intervening ball which may be 1 or 2mm inside the direct potting line. Nothing magical about it however it can help continue a break.

Erm, judd trump pivots mate. And so does vmax!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

They're then playing down the wrong line of aim Terry, and this is how Dr. Dave gets his throw theory. Notice how all these shots are played with cue pivoted and balls only a couple of inches apart. Try it yourself and see.



Really Ramon, I must have missed that so could you find a link to a video or magazine article.





And you found all this out making your 16 break yes ?

I'm pretty sure ramon is joking about the 16 break mate. There will be someone around here with a lower break than you, I'm sure.

But what does SIT have to do with pivoting? Is screwback determined by pivoting? Or top spin?

[Ramon]

They're then playing down the wrong line of aim Terry, and this is how Dr. Dave gets his throw theory. Notice how all these shots are played with cue pivoted and balls only a couple of inches apart. Try it yourself and see.



Really Ramon, I must have missed that so could you find a link to a video or magazine article.





And you found all this out making your 16 break yes ?

The amity that wisdom knits not, folly may easily untie.

And that"s your pride , my friend !!

[vmax]

You have it wrong though vmax, pool players get down centre-ball and then swivel the cue to the side of the cueball.

They're then playing down the wrong line of aim Terry, and this is how Dr. Dave gets his throw theory. Notice how all these shots are played with cue pivoted and balls only a couple of inches apart. Try it yourself and see.

Ray Reardon was the one who admitted many years later he was'nt able to see many things in his own time, because of lack of camera technology.

Really Ramon, I must have missed that so could you find a link to a video or magazine article.

Glad you find the info useful . So do I .

Sometimes you can'nt adjust the line of aim ( or not enoght to get in a natural potting angle , anyway ) .
Using side can be useful .
The trouble is that many players consider playing* a shot with side , as a diff shot comperd to other shots .
Playing a decent scrw back shot or stun shot* , requires many hours of practis and table time.
Well , it's the same when it comes to using side . It's not easy .
At the end , you gonna find your way and learn to use it . But abit* knowledge and info* regarding the* process can do no harm and might speed up your learning process as well .
Do you need to use it all the time ?
No ,
But you can say that regarding any other shot in the game of snooker .
We do'nt use scrw back shot or stun shot all the time either .

And you found all this out making your 16 break yes ?

[Ramon]

I used the Pivot thang when I had a 6x3 with little balls back in late 70's, and it is a mare with big balls over a distance. tat is probably why I was pants at Snooker, relatively speaking (I think I got it from watching Higgins, bit not 100% sure). Since starting again this year, I was very much centre ball, but from this thread have learnt how to pot with helping side again, and got a lot better because of it, (particularly long off straight pots, with the CB not leaking) because of this thread.

Yes the arc\curve of the CB may be relevant, but I'm not sure I want to hurt my Brain Cell with that one. A not too clever Maths teacher of mine once said: "I don't know how a car works to drive one": he must have been told it, but it may be relevant here. An off straight pot can be held when potted with side, and stun\top go about half as wide as when CB is struck on centre line, in my experience.

Glad you find the info useful . So do I .

Sometimes you can'nt adjust the line of aim ( or not enoght to get in a natural potting angle , anyway ) .
Using side can be useful .
The trouble is that many players consider playing* a shot with side , as a diff shot comperd to other shots .
Playing a decent scrw back shot or stun shot* , requires many hours of practis and table time.
Well , it's the same when it comes to using side . It's not easy .
At the end , you gonna find your way and learn to use it . But abit* knowledge and info* regarding the* process can do no harm and might speed up your learning process as well .
Do you need to use it all the time ?
No ,
But you can say that regarding any other shot in the game of snooker .
We do'nt use scrw back shot or stun shot all the time either .

[Terry Davidson]

I used the Pivot thang when I had a 6x3 with little balls back in late 70's, and it is a mare with big balls over a distance. tat is probably why I was pants at Snooker, relatively speaking (I think I got it from watching Higgins, bit not 100% sure). Since starting again this year, I was very much centre ball, but from this thread have learnt how to pot with helping side again, and got a lot better because of it, (particularly long off straight pots, with the CB not leaking) because of this thread.

Yes the arc\curve of the CB may be relevant, but I'm not sure I want to hurt my Brain Cell with that one. A not too clever Maths teacher of mine once said: "I don't know how a car works to drive one": he must have been told it, but it may be relevant here. An off straight pot can be held when potted with side, and stun\top go about half as wide as when CB is struck on centre line, in my experience.

As Barry said the CB throw from side and its recovery can be dependent on many things such as how stiff the cue is, how hard the tip, humidity, thickness of cloth and weight of the cueball. It becomes 'subjective' or in other words a guess based on a player's experience but becomes a damned good guess if a player practices it and the conditions are not much different from what he practiced.

Well, time for my daily practice routines.