Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[j6uk]

Thank you Biggy, very generous of you. SIT is a dream!!!! or maybe magic!!! or maybe fake news. Travis will keep using helping side to kill the CB but he will say, 'yeah, but there was some SIT there', add an H and you have the full story.

tel its worth repeating, maybe these are things that you never really came across back in the day. those few years you were in the uk it sounds like you were doing your apprenticeship through sparing, getting battered by the pros and not too much solo practice. then there was the busy competition scheduled of the 80s.
plus the amount of players there were trying to get on the tables back then, not much time for solo work.. i remember those days well as a junior, and happy to say im still always looking to learn something new

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You should be. When you do your video hit the black with helping side and you're increasing the cut so more energy remains with the CB. It is impossible to hold the CB with helping side BUT if you and Biggy can prove helping side works better than inside side I'll eat my words.

My pleasure mate. See diagrams 2 and 3 of the calibration and hold link.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html

Playing with SIT allows you to hold the cue ball slightly. This is all we're discussing.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

My pleasure mate. See diagrams 2 and 3 of the calibration and hold link.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html

Playing with SIT allows you to hold the cue ball slightly. This is all we're discussing.

Also, click the "hold" or "kill" link - TP A.29 will provide the physics for you. I know you like physics, so this should give you something to get your teeth into.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html

[Terry Davidson]

tel its worth repeating, maybe these are things that you never really came across back in the day. those few years you were in the uk it sounds like you were doing your apprenticeship through sparing, getting battered by the pros and not too much solo practice. then there was the busy competition scheduled of the 80s.
plus the amount of players there were trying to get on the tables back then, not much time for solo work.. i remember those days well as a junior, and happy to say im still always looking to learn something new

I had my own match table 5 days a week from 10am until 4pm with a pro cloth Willie got for me. I have always believed and played these shots frequently and always thought the cueball curved into the potting point and I played them fine. Side was well known in those days however most coaches were saying centre-ball striking was the way to go because side was always dangerous and especially on some of the club tables we played our comps on. I understand side and can use it but I choose not to and for instance your shot at 7:00 I probably would have used a slow screw or maybe check side off the side cushion.

In snooker there are usually a couple choices for getting the ideal position you want on anything but a straight-in pot where side doesn't help anyway. I took a hard look in slow motion at your shot at 3:50 where you said you used a lot of LH side but you would have hit that red at the back of the pack or if you aimed off the left would have taken you further off the pot and you would have overcut it. The best shot I think was a slow screw leaving a handy 3/4 black where you can get anywhere on the table so it would give you more choices.

I always played what's called 'area position' where you end up in an area where you have a few choices which is always nicer.

[Terry Davidson]

Also, click the "hold" or "kill" link - TP A.29 will provide the physics for you. I know you like physics, so this should give you something to get your teeth into.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html

I see the effect you're showing but again I note those damned American videos are done on a slow 4 x 8 table and this one had absolutely HUGE pockets. I can't deny the ball threw opposite but that whole series is about TRANSFERRED SPIN on a pool table with heavier balls. I have never seen that much transferred spin on a snooker table.

For example, the one shot there with the 8 frozen on the 9. Switch to a snooker table and have the pink on its spot and the blue touching the pink in a straight line. You could try all day to hit the blue centre-ball and using opposite side, in this case RH side to transfer LH side to the blue ball and put it behind the pink. But I'm gonna try this shot tomorrow and see, using a spotted cueball.

Most of these shots you post from pool either don't work as well on a snooker table or don't work at all in some cases. I appreciate your efforts to 'educate' me but you'll have to admit there's a reason we don't see any snooker training or coaching videos pushing this info. Now if snooker reverted back to much heavier cloths and heavier balls I think we would have seen some videos because after all the old billiards players used side on almost every shot and I've never seen videos similar to the ones you put up. Maybe they're out there but I haven't seen them. Perhaps with all his vast side knowledge Travis could make a training video and sell it for big bucks.

I agree side without a cushion can be used to get past an intervening ball but I still think with snooker if you want to hold the CB it either has to be inside side or else using the cushion to gain the ideal position or slow screw. I was taught using side with snooker is more dangerous than the other options available. So let's see what Travis put up on Saturday and if I can see his cue, the CB & OB and the pocket and he uses helping side to hold the CB then I'll congratulate him because I couldn't do it on my table and I tried both inside and helping side and only the inside side 'threw' the ball into the pocket. The helping side had to be aimed differently and didn't hold the CB as well as the inside side did. Remember, slick cloth which was blocked and ironed, not a term used much by pool players.

[travisbickle]

Im the one in blue lol

[throtts]

tel its worth repeating, maybe these are things that you never really came across back in the day. those few years you were in the uk it sounds like you were doing your apprenticeship through sparing, getting battered by the pros and not too much solo practice. then there was the busy competition scheduled of the 80s.
plus the amount of players there were trying to get on the tables back then, not much time for solo work.. i remember those days well as a junior, and happy to say im still always looking to learn something new

Hi Jason,

May I ask?. Your 4 min red you potted in your vid you stated you used LH side to hold for the black on its spot. Is that correct?..

[travisbickle]

Can't get into the thread. That gif has frozen me out for some reason. Can a mod delete it please

[travisbickle]

I see the effect you're showing but again I note those damned American videos are done on a slow 4 x 8 table and this one had absolutely HUGE pockets. I can't deny the ball threw opposite but that whole series is about TRANSFERRED SPIN on a pool table with heavier balls. I have never seen that much transferred spin on a snooker table.

For example, the one shot there with the 8 frozen on the 9. Switch to a snooker table and have the pink on its spot and the blue touching the pink in a straight line. You could try all day to hit the blue centre-ball and using opposite side, in this case RH side to transfer LH side to the blue ball and put it behind the pink. But I'm gonna try this shot tomorrow and see, using a spotted cueball.

Most of these shots you post from pool either don't work as well on a snooker table or don't work at all in some cases. I appreciate your efforts to 'educate' me but you'll have to admit there's a reason we don't see any snooker training or coaching videos pushing this info. Now if snooker reverted back to much heavier cloths and heavier balls I think we would have seen some videos because after all the old billiards players used side on almost every shot and I've never seen videos similar to the ones you put up. Maybe they're out there but I haven't seen them. Perhaps with all his vast side knowledge Travis could make a training video and sell it for big bucks.

I agree side without a cushion can be used to get past an intervening ball but I still think with snooker if you want to hold the CB it either has to be inside side or else using the cushion to gain the ideal position or slow screw. I was taught using side with snooker is more dangerous than the other options available. So let's see what Travis put up on Saturday and if I can see his cue, the CB & OB and the pocket and he uses helping side to hold the CB then I'll congratulate him because I couldn't do it on my table and I tried both inside and helping side and only the inside side 'threw' the ball into the pocket. The helping side had to be aimed differently and didn't hold the CB as well as the inside side did. Remember, slick cloth which was blocked and ironed, not a term used much by pool players.

Did you see how the CB spotted dead? Funny that isn't it, who would've thought!
I'd like to see you hold for that shot using inside side as you call it.
But hey you're the expect on here and you know best!!!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I see the effect you're showing but again I note those damned American videos are done on a slow 4 x 8 table and this one had absolutely HUGE pockets. I can't deny the ball threw opposite but that whole series is about TRANSFERRED SPIN on a pool table with heavier balls. I have never seen that much transferred spin on a snooker table.

For example, the one shot there with the 8 frozen on the 9. Switch to a snooker table and have the pink on its spot and the blue touching the pink in a straight line. You could try all day to hit the blue centre-ball and using opposite side, in this case RH side to transfer LH side to the blue ball and put it behind the pink. But I'm gonna try this shot tomorrow and see, using a spotted cueball.

Most of these shots you post from pool either don't work as well on a snooker table or don't work at all in some cases. I appreciate your efforts to 'educate' me but you'll have to admit there's a reason we don't see any snooker training or coaching videos pushing this info. Now if snooker reverted back to much heavier cloths and heavier balls I think we would have seen some videos because after all the old billiards players used side on almost every shot and I've never seen videos similar to the ones you put up. Maybe they're out there but I haven't seen them. Perhaps with all his vast side knowledge Travis could make a training video and sell it for big bucks.

I agree side without a cushion can be used to get past an intervening ball but I still think with snooker if you want to hold the CB it either has to be inside side or else using the cushion to gain the ideal position or slow screw. I was taught using side with snooker is more dangerous than the other options available. So let's see what Travis put up on Saturday and if I can see his cue, the CB & OB and the pocket and he uses helping side to hold the CB then I'll congratulate him because I couldn't do it on my table and I tried both inside and helping side and only the inside side 'threw' the ball into the pocket. The helping side had to be aimed differently and didn't hold the CB as well as the inside side did. Remember, slick cloth which was blocked and ironed, not a term used much by pool players.

Probably a good idea to banish the words spin transfer from the snooker lexicon (unless we are talking about using it for safety shots or doubles). Spin transfer is useful to widen or shorten the angle of the OB after striking a cushion. I've linked this one again.

https://youtu.be/4PGXUld5A24

We are talking about throw here, in this case SIT. If everyone could stick to that it would make things much easier.

How about the physics? Was there anything in the equations you disagreed with?

[throtts]

Travis has given the thread a virus via the handbag fight ...

[vmax]

Duh...who in hell is aiming at BOB. With side you have to compensate on the aiming. When you have a 3/4 black, (this same one) and you want to crank the cueball with top left and power where in hell do you aim. You aim virtually full ball depending on side and power.

This is what they don't get Tel, they think they're hitting where they're aiming and believe that the OB is being thrown after a full ball contact is made, right for left and left for right, they don't know that the cue ball has swerved slightly.
Dr. Dave and his use of plants and sets to prove his theories throw a cloud of confusion over this topic because the squeeze effect is a major part of what's actually happening.

Those little stun shots to 'prove' CIT I'm not buying either, at that short distance I'm betting the cue ball is leaving the table a tad and making a thicker contact as a result, and that three ball plant isn't hit correctly either, if it could be done using a Newton's cradle to completely eliminate the squeeze effect the outcome would be a pot 100% of the time.

To top it all off there is no nap on the cloth, so the swerve effect we get so much sooner on a snooker table isn't part of Dr. Dave's equation, I asked him about it and he hasn't experimented on a napped cloth, so my opinion isn't changed.

As far as I'm concerned this is all that's happening and you make allowances for power, pace and spin with, against and across the nap.

[DeanH]

phew, took a while but finally got the controls to appear to remove the post by Travisbickle, I hope you all see the thread now

[j6uk]

turn it in pt2

here in this vid i manage to pot a black off its spot thats not possible, as the potting angle is not there. but with the help of rrh-side i was able to straighten it up.
the next shot is the same from a lower angle.

I had my own match table 5 days a week from 10am until 4pm with a pro cloth Willie got for me. I have always believed and played these shots frequently and always thought the cueball curved into the potting point and I played them fine. Side was well known in those days however most coaches were saying centre-ball striking was the way to go because side was always dangerous and especially on some of the club tables we played our comps on. I understand side and can use it but I choose not to and for instance your shot at 7:00 I probably would have used a slow screw or maybe check side off the side cushion.

In snooker there are usually a couple choices for getting the ideal position you want on anything but a straight-in pot where side doesn't help anyway. I took a hard look in slow motion at your shot at 3:50 where you said you used a lot of LH side but you would have hit that red at the back of the pack or if you aimed off the left would have taken you further off the pot and you would have overcut it. The best shot I think was a slow screw leaving a handy 3/4 black where you can get anywhere on the table so it would give you more choices.

I always played what's called 'area position' where you end up in an area where you have a few choices which is always nicer.

so your very own pro conditions then. you must of needed plenty of time too on the crap tables so as to prepare for the 80s comp conditions.
interesting stuff tel..

[guernseygooner]

Good stuff Jason