Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[Terry Davidson]

Hang on Biggie, going back to Selby... the guy didn't start out as a pool player, that sir is a huge myth.

Sorry Tom, ignore my last remark

[Terry Davidson]

I reckon that we can get at least another 50 pages on when a player should start using side to pot

No, I would rather let the new players learn for themselves the dangers of using side excessively but then again, except for the league players, there are no match players on here are there so suffering a loss through using side too much would never be a problem for most players on here. I hadn't thought of that before.

[j6uk]

its this shot, tel you trying to forget about it already? i walk around this shot in the video showing every conceivable angle. this 3/4 ball pots straight? can you see bob?

Hmmmm (the thinking one) I only use it to "create" angle ie hitting the OB fuller and throwing (for want of a better word) off line into the pocket. Maybe that is because I only "see" those ones: but this is definitely worth practicing....

yes i think so, as you can see above by making the black it gives a great chance to go on and make a frame winning contribution..
knowing what the effects the cb can have on the ob will also underline the importance of finding the core of the white for most shots a player gets down for.

[Terry Davidson]

without getting too technical tel, say if your on a straight black and you can only see 3/4 of it do you go for it or not? if not why not?

I consider myself to be an accomplished player just like you do of yourself and you know damned well we would both go for your shot in your video. Why are you bringing this up again? I already said I would normally pot it with running side.

Jason:

I couldn't find the post but somewhere you asked me to start sort of a vlog on snooker techniques and tactics and I was thinking of doing that until this string came along. I'm not willing to put myself out there as a whipping boy to be harassed, ridiculed, called monumentally stupid and all the rest of the trash talk especially from a (British) pool player who knows diddley squat about snooker. Not even aware normal snooker practice when using side is to compensate with aim rather than pivot the cue because he saw pivoting the cue 'proven' in an American video.

The sad thing is SIT probably actually exists, but under very precise and strict conditions and totally useless to snooker players, however these 2 pool players have tried to fold bending the cueball into the potting position into the SIT umbrella. It's very disappointing to see snooker players like Oma and Ramon getting sucked into this belief that SIT is the only reason they can pot a partially obstructed ball. Believe what you want but I don't believe SIT is a part of that because snooker players have been doing it for decades (but of course not calling it SIT). Cueball throw-off and curve is not a part of SIT and never has been.

I find it disappointing snooker players would rather believe someone like Hello Mr. Big Shot and Travis and are gullible enough to consider bending a cueball to be part of the SIT debate. I believe it's not a part of that at all despite the photos Ramon pushes out there 'proving' it. All snooker players need to know is it can be done and they can do it without knowing the physics behind it. Who cares?

So no vlog with people around who prefer to insult rather than debate.

[Ramon]

Hang on Biggie, going back to Selby... the guy didn't start out as a pool player, that sir is a huge myth.

He started playing pool when he was 8 years old , hotshot !! went to play snooker when he was 9 years old.

[blahblah01]

yes i think so, as you can see above by making the black it gives a great chance to go on and make a frame winning contribution..
knowing what the effects the cb can have on the ob will also underline the importance of finding the core of the white for most shots a player gets down for.

Yeah, I think the "non-helping" (ie not making angle bigger) is something I do subconciously or from experience to get the pot and CB positioning. Tbh, I have tended to struggle with this, but had never thought of it for that example, while I use "helping side" quite a lot now - well, especially after a few hours potting with side as opposed to angle from over 100 pages ago of this thread

Also as Barry S mentioned something about Pro's going a bit thicker and a bit of helping side, so the contact is fuller, meaning better CB control and less pace......

[travisbickle]

I consider myself to be an accomplished player just like you do of yourself and you know damned well we would both go for your shot in your video. Why are you bringing this up again? I already said I would normally pot it with running side.

Jason:

I couldn't find the post but somewhere you asked me to start sort of a vlog on snooker techniques and tactics and I was thinking of doing that until this string came along. I'm not willing to put myself out there as a whipping boy to be harassed, ridiculed, called monumentally stupid and all the rest of the trash talk especially from a (British) pool player who knows diddley squat about snooker. Not even aware normal snooker practice when using side is to compensate with aim rather than pivot the cue because he saw pivoting the cue 'proven' in an American video.

The sad thing is SIT probably actually exists, but under very precise and strict conditions and totally useless to snooker players, however these 2 pool players have tried to fold bending the cueball into the potting position into the SIT umbrella. It's very disappointing to see snooker players like Oma and Ramon getting sucked into this belief that SIT is the only reason they can pot a partially obstructed ball. Believe what you want but I don't believe SIT is a part of that because snooker players have been doing it for decades (but of course not calling it SIT). Cueball throw-off and curve is not a part of SIT and never has been.

I find it disappointing snooker players would rather believe someone like Hello Mr. Big Shot and Travis and are gullible enough to consider bending a cueball to be part of the SIT debate. I believe it's not a part of that at all despite the photos Ramon pushes out there 'proving' it. All snooker players need to know is it can be done and they can do it without knowing the physics behind it. Who cares?

So no vlog with people around who prefer to insult rather than debate.

lol I can feel your pain Tel!
Must be awful for your pride that a couple of pool players know more about this then you do!
Still waiting for my slow mo vid from either you or vmax to prove your theory of bending CBs into BOB btw???

[Terry Davidson]

Yeah, I think the "non-helping" (ie not making angle bigger) is something I do subconciously or from experience to get the pot and CB positioning. Tbh, I have tended to struggle with this, but had never thought of it for that example, while I use "helping side" quite a lot now - well, especially after a few hours potting with side as opposed to angle from over 100 pages ago of this thread

Also as Barry S mentioned something about Pro's going a bit thicker and a bit of helping side, so the contact is fuller, meaning better CB control and less pace......

I didn't see that on Barry's videos and I'm quite surpised he would say that as most pros don't use helping side as a matter of course but will use it on a shot where they thing the contact needs to be thicker or thinner. Or at least I've never seen that. vmax is a player who prefers to use helping side and so did Willie Thorne.

[blahblah01]

I didn't see that on Barry's videos and I'm quite surpised he would say that as most pros don't use helping side as a matter of course but will use it on a shot where they thing the contact needs to be thicker or thinner. Or at least I've never seen that. vmax is a player who prefers to use helping side and so did Willie Thorne.

From about 2 mins in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L6P6jGfefI

[Terry Davidson]

From about 2 mins in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7L6P6jGfefI

Yes, I watched it, thank you. That's what he's going for is a thicker of thinner contact for position and we all do that. Please note that Barry also says he has to 'adjust' his aim when using side and it's learning the aim compensation that's the hard thing as it changes with conditions as I think Barry has already mentioned in another of his videos.

On the shot to the top pocket my own preference would have been to use more screw and less side to get the blue to the opposite middle pocket because that way (for me) I figure I can get more precise position plus when playing on some of these club tables you never know what the damned cushions are going to do.

[blahblah01]

Yes, I watched it, thank you. That's what he's going for is a thicker of thinner contact for position and we all do that. Please note that Barry also says he has to 'adjust' his aim when using side and it's learning the aim compensation that's the hard thing as it changes with conditions as I think Barry has already mentioned in another of his videos.

The adjustment is what we are talking about? And some of us use it as an advantage for position where no cushions are involved, potting balls where the BOB is not available...

On the shot to the top pocket my own preference would have been to use more screw and less side to get the blue to the opposite middle pocket because that way (for me) I figure I can get more precise position plus when playing on some of these club tables you never know what the damned cushions are going to do.

That is the subjectiveness? (ie whatever people are comfortable with....)

[Terry Davidson]

The adjustment is what we are talking about? And some of us use it as an advantage for position where no cushions are involved, potting balls where the BOB is not available...


That is the subjectiveness? (ie whatever people are comfortable with....)

That 'adjustment' is the aim-off of the cue forced by hitting the cueball with side. In pool the players will line up centre-ball and pivot the cue on their bridge but if you did that in snooker it would be a disaster. The subjectiveness is what a player is more comfortable doing as in my case with a different approach to the blue position which in a frame I consider critical as I have to be on the correct side of it to continue the break.

Any use of side whether slow or hard will mean you have to adjust the line of aim of the cue. On a hard shot the CB stays on that thrown line but on a softer shot the CB recovers to the correct line of aim. This is how a snooker player gets around an intervening ball which may be 1 or 2mm inside the direct potting line. Nothing magical about it however it can help continue a break.

[blahblah01]

I used the Pivot thang when I had a 6x3 with little balls back in late 70's, and it is a mare with big balls over a distance. tat is probably why I was pants at Snooker, relatively speaking (I think I got it from watching Higgins, bit not 100% sure). Since starting again this year, I was very much centre ball, but from this thread have learnt how to pot with helping side again, and got a lot better because of it, (particularly long off straight pots, with the CB not leaking) because of this thread.

Yes the arc\curve of the CB may be relevant, but I'm not sure I want to hurt my Brain Cell with that one. A not too clever Maths teacher of mine once said: "I don't know how a car works to drive one": he must have been told it, but it may be relevant here. An off straight pot can be held when potted with side, and stun\top go about half as wide as when CB is struck on centre line, in my experience.

[Terry Davidson]

I used the Pivot thang when I had a 6x3 with little balls back in late 70's, and it is a mare with big balls over a distance. tat is probably why I was pants at Snooker, relatively speaking (I think I got it from watching Higgins, bit not 100% sure). Since starting again this year, I was very much centre ball, but from this thread have learnt how to pot with helping side again, and got a lot better because of it, (particularly long off straight pots, with the CB not leaking) because of this thread.

Yes the arc\curve of the CB may be relevant, but I'm not sure I want to hurt my Brain Cell with that one. A not too clever Maths teacher of mine once said: "I don't know how a car works to drive one": he must have been told it, but it may be relevant here. An off straight pot can be held when potted with side, and stun\top go about half as wide as when CB is struck on centre line, in my experience.

As Barry said the CB throw from side and its recovery can be dependent on many things such as how stiff the cue is, how hard the tip, humidity, thickness of cloth and weight of the cueball. It becomes 'subjective' or in other words a guess based on a player's experience but becomes a damned good guess if a player practices it and the conditions are not much different from what he practiced.

Well, time for my daily practice routines.

[Ramon]

I used the Pivot thang when I had a 6x3 with little balls back in late 70's, and it is a mare with big balls over a distance. tat is probably why I was pants at Snooker, relatively speaking (I think I got it from watching Higgins, bit not 100% sure). Since starting again this year, I was very much centre ball, but from this thread have learnt how to pot with helping side again, and got a lot better because of it, (particularly long off straight pots, with the CB not leaking) because of this thread.

Yes the arc\curve of the CB may be relevant, but I'm not sure I want to hurt my Brain Cell with that one. A not too clever Maths teacher of mine once said: "I don't know how a car works to drive one": he must have been told it, but it may be relevant here. An off straight pot can be held when potted with side, and stun\top go about half as wide as when CB is struck on centre line, in my experience.

Glad you find the info useful . So do I .

Sometimes you can'nt adjust the line of aim ( or not enoght to get in a natural potting angle , anyway ) .
Using side can be useful .
The trouble is that many players consider playing* a shot with side , as a diff shot comperd to other shots .
Playing a decent scrw back shot or stun shot* , requires many hours of practis and table time.
Well , it's the same when it comes to using side . It's not easy .
At the end , you gonna find your way and learn to use it . But abit* knowledge and info* regarding the* process can do no harm and might speed up your learning process as well .
Do you need to use it all the time ?
No ,
But you can say that regarding any other shot in the game of snooker .
We do'nt use scrw back shot or stun shot all the time either .