My Last Sit Video - no more coming

[Terry Davidson]

these shots do come up now and again, and are played at the highest level under whatever conditions.
and if we cant defend evidence backed facts about the game that we love on tsf then what are we here for?

Jason...here you are stirring the pot again. I said the shot come up infrequently and I believe this to be true. The shot you set up and Oma's shot did not use SIT to pot the ball, you simply curled the cueball into the potting position and it was the same with Oma's and this type of shot comes up more frequently at the top level of snooker. You insist SIT is the only way a player can make these shots but if you look at Oma's shot especially he used far too much pace and the experts say pace eliminates SIT.

Your black ball was 1/8th covered and I measured it and I was able to make the shot easily and at some pace so no SIT to me. You believe what you want but snooker players have been making these shots for decades and haven't heard of SIT.

SIT is being touted here as the new 'discipline' we should all pay attention to but I am comfortable with being able to use swerve without trying to calculate how much speed and side I can put on the cueball in order to make the pot. That calculation is beyond me and even Travis, our resident expert, says he isn't certain how this spin actually works and insists it's SIT potting the ball. This will do most player's head in. As I said, believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

Your video was actually 'cute' and that's exactly what you accused me of.

[j6uk]

Jason...here you are stirring the pot again. I said the shot come up infrequently and I believe this to be true. The shot you set up and Oma's shot did not use SIT to pot the ball, you simply curled the cueball into the potting position and it was the same with Oma's and this type of shot comes up more frequently at the top level of snooker. You insist SIT is the only way a player can make these shots but if you look at Oma's shot especially he used far too much pace and the experts say pace eliminates SIT.


Your black ball was 1/8th covered and I measured it and I was able to make the shot easily and at some pace so no SIT to me. You believe what you want but snooker players have been making these shots for decades and haven't heard of SIT.

SIT is being touted here as the new 'discipline' we should all pay attention to but I am comfortable with being able to use swerve without trying to calculate how much speed and side I can put on the cueball in order to make the pot. That calculation is beyond me and even Travis, our resident expert, says he isn't certain how this spin actually works and insists it's SIT potting the ball. This will do most player's head in. As I said, believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

Your video was actually 'cute' and that's exactly what you accused me of.

sorry tel, the scares are very visible for all to see and will never heal, opening them back up is messy and pitifully unnecessary.

[dan_ormerod]

You believe what you want but snooker players have been making these shots for decades and haven't heard of SIT.

The commentators on BBC talked about it a lot even in the 80's they just didn't refer to it as SIT.

Isn't SIT just how american's (or pool players) refer to it and we call it helping side or a touch of throw etc.?

[travisbickle]

The commentators on BBC talked about it a lot even in the 80's they just didn't refer to it as SIT.

Isn't SIT just how american's (or pool players) refer to it and we call it helping side or a touch of throw etc.?

TD/vmax are allowing for CB deflection but are not allowing for OB throw, which is why TD kept missing the black left & right when playing with side

[dan_ormerod]

TD/vmax are allowing for CB deflection but are not allowing for OB throw, which is why TD kept missing the black left & right when playing with side

Yes I can see that in the video

Helping side is SIT though yes or am I mistaken?

[travisbickle]

Yes I can see that in the video

Helping side is SIT though yes or am I mistaken?

Yes I think it is.

Basically TD/vmax believe you have to hit the correct line on the OB to pot it.
They are both wrong though.

[Terry Davidson]

Yes I think it is.

Basically TD/vmax believe you have to hit the correct line on the OB to pot it.
They are both wrong though.

Travis...Helping side is not SIT because it's used at medium pace or more depending on the shot. Both you and Biggie have stated pace nullifies SIT so stick to your own theories please. Helping side is hitting just off centre and adjusting the aim to compensate for the small amount of side and on very fine cuts some players will use inside side to get a better angle on the pot but that isn't SIT.

You can hit the correct potting line with or without side depending on what you want to achieve from the shot.

[Terry Davidson]

sorry tel, the scares are very visible for all to see and will never heal, opening them back up is messy and pitifully unnecessary.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were talking about the red where you curled around the pack and where you UNDERCUT the first shot. Why didn't SIT 'throw' that ball in for you. I think sit wasn't involved at that pace and you just hit the shot either too hard or with not enough spin to get the cueball where it needed to be to pot the ball. You second shot potted the ball fine but watching when your cueball hit the cushion it's obvious you had lots of side on the shot.

The sit boys have stated 'too much spin nullifies the sit effect'. So to me I think you actually hit the potting point on that red. The same as your black which I thought you were talking about.

[Terry Davidson]

Yes I think it is.

Basically TD/vmax believe you have to hit the correct line on the OB to pot it.
They are both wrong though.

There you go again Travis, putting words in my mouth. How many times do I have to say 'SIT EXISTS' in order for you to read and understand. I have managed to OVER-STRAIGHTEN the black ball shot to where the black hits the top cushion 2" before the corner pocket. I didn't video it because I know how to do it and figured no one would believe the video anyway and figure I faked it somehow. I didn't.

[travisbickle]

There you go again Travis, putting words in my mouth. How many times do I have to say 'SIT EXISTS' in order for you to read and understand. I have managed to OVER-STRAIGHTEN the black ball shot to where the black hits the top cushion 2" before the corner pocket. I didn't video it because I know how to do it and figured no one would believe the video anyway and figure I faked it somehow. I didn't.

You straightened the black up in your video, but you said you didn't!
Your confusing the life out of me Tel!

[travisbickle]

Travis...Helping side is not SIT because it's used at medium pace or more depending on the shot. Both you and Biggie have stated pace nullifies SIT so stick to your own theories please. Helping side is hitting just off centre and adjusting the aim to compensate for the small amount of side and on very fine cuts some players will use inside side to get a better angle on the pot but that isn't SIT.

You can hit the correct potting line with or without side depending on what you want to achieve from the shot.

So what's this then. Taken from this site a few years ago.

Side on the cb will tend to throw the ob off course. But in some cases it can be thought of as 'helping side'.

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide. But the frictional force - and hence the amount of throw - will be reduced if the surfaces of the cb and ob are moving too fast in relation to each other. So don't think that the more side you put on, the more throw you get. And if the cb is also rolling or spinning backwards, then this movement between the two balls' surfaces will also reduce the throw effect.

In snooker and UK pool, this can be quite useful.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

2) when potting a ball along the cushion, side can help. Without side, the friction in the cb ob collision will tend to push the ob into the cushion which is not what you want. If you are fairly straight, use a little check & stun which tends to counter this effect. But if you potting at more of an angle, then top & running side can work better (but the explanation is more complex).

There is also the effect that Vmax describes in post #9.

3) eg when you are trying to hold the white but have left yourself too much angle (typically I find on shots to the middle). The effect here is as Vmax describes, the off-centre hit on the white pushes it wide so it comes in to the ob from a different direction, hitting it thicker than it would do otherwise, and allowing you to hold the white. Sometimes. Play with soft screw.

In case 3) the frictional effect of the spin tends to work in the 'wrong' way, ie wanting to make you lose the white. But with enough backspin on the white, the balls will not grip and the frictional effect should not be a problem - at least on a snooker table. With US pool equipment it this shot does not work, and US-pool players do the opposite - playing with 'outside english'. But that's their problem.

Original Source: Helping side http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...#ixzz4tuHZba2U
- TSF - TheSnookerForum.co.uk
Follow us: @TheSnookerForum on Twitter | TheSnookerForum on Facebook

[j6uk]

tel,
putting your grasp on sit aside for a moment ,are you planning some more videos about this if so what will it be?
and if not could you do something on an area your more certain on like maybe shot selection for big breaks and or strategy? im sure others here would really like to open that old nut of yours and learn something.

[Cue crafty]

tel,
putting your grasp on sit aside for a moment ,are you planning some more videos about this if so what will it be?
and if not could you do something on an area your more certain on like maybe shot selection for big breaks and or strategy? im sure others here would really like to open that old nut of yours and learn something.

2nd that! The agree to disagree thing was done a way back. Nothing left to be said, opinions vary...cool.

Would love to hear about Cliff Thorburn's pool hustling or Big Bill's capacity for beer? I read that he drunk Eddie Sinclair under the table once! Eddie got to something crazy like 45 pints in the course of the day then passed out. Big Bill was in front and said TF for that I can go and have a proper drink now! Lol, that's entertaining info! 😎

[Terry Davidson]

tel,
putting your grasp on sit aside for a moment ,are you planning some more videos about this if so what will it be?
and if not could you do something on an area your more certain on like maybe shot selection for big breaks and or strategy? im sure others here would really like to open that old nut of yours and learn something.

I'm not inclined to do any more videos as I feel there has been an effort to ruin my credibility and I'm not going to put a video out there to have you come along and trash it with your superior knowledge Jason. I am not going to paint a target on my back for you, Biggie, Travis, Oma, Ramon and Reggie to shoot arrows at it.

[Terry Davidson]

2nd that! The agree to disagree thing was done a way back. Nothing left to be said, opinions vary...cool.

Would love to hear about Cliff Thorburn's pool hustling or Big Bill's capacity for beer? I read that he drunk Eddie Sinclair under the table once! Eddie got to something crazy like 45 pints in the course of the day then passed out. Big Bill was in front and said TF for that I can go and have a proper drink now! Lol, that's entertaining info! ��

I'm no expert on Big Bill's drinking capacity however I've heard Cliff talk about it. I also played Eddie in Glasgow in a friendly game and the drinks were coming like a freight train. Both Cliff and Bill hustled pool in the States when they were young and there are some stories in Cliff's biography written by Mordechi Richler (spelling?). I have a ton of them, like 'Bionic Frank Jonik' who was a pro around the time of the 6 Million Dollar Man. Watched Kirk Stevens as a kid gambling for $100 a game, 3 reds and giving up a 10-point start (he won).