My Last Sit Video - no more coming

[Terry Davidson]

So what's this then. Taken from this site a few years ago.

Side on the cb will tend to throw the ob off course. But in some cases it can be thought of as 'helping side'.

The effect is caused by the friction between the balls when they collide. But the frictional force - and hence the amount of throw - will be reduced if the surfaces of the cb and ob are moving too fast in relation to each other. So don't think that the more side you put on, the more throw you get. And if the cb is also rolling or spinning backwards, then this movement between the two balls' surfaces will also reduce the throw effect.

In snooker and UK pool, this can be quite useful.

1) if you can't quite get to the potting angle, because another ball is in the way, you can sometimes make the pot by using side to throw the ball in. Works best at slow to medium speed, and with stun on the white (top or screw tends to reduce the frictional effect by encouraging the surfaces to slide of each other rather than stick)

2) when potting a ball along the cushion, side can help. Without side, the friction in the cb ob collision will tend to push the ob into the cushion which is not what you want. If you are fairly straight, use a little check & stun which tends to counter this effect. But if you potting at more of an angle, then top & running side can work better (but the explanation is more complex).

There is also the effect that Vmax describes in post #9.

3) eg when you are trying to hold the white but have left yourself too much angle (typically I find on shots to the middle). The effect here is as Vmax describes, the off-centre hit on the white pushes it wide so it comes in to the ob from a different direction, hitting it thicker than it would do otherwise, and allowing you to hold the white. Sometimes. Play with soft screw.

In case 3) the frictional effect of the spin tends to work in the 'wrong' way, ie wanting to make you lose the white. But with enough backspin on the white, the balls will not grip and the frictional effect should not be a problem - at least on a snooker table. With US pool equipment it this shot does not work, and US-pool players do the opposite - playing with 'outside english'. But that's their problem.

Original Source: Helping side http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...#ixzz4tuHZba2U
- TSF - TheSnookerForum.co.uk
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Interesting. I don't remember that string at all so it must have been while I was sick 18 month ago. I checked your link but no comments from me although I agree with most of the comments. I noticed the term 'SIT' isn't mentioned and Big Shot or you didn't get on there and trash everyone. It looks to me like we've gone back a ways and are making no progress as a civil discussion forum.

I see it was 2014 and I did comment on page 1 and I believe this was a heated discussion I had with vmax regarding 'helping side' as he is an advocate and I'm not. Thorne used it on every shot that wasn't straight in and although he managed over 600 x 147s he only won one ranking tournament in his career. I could comment on those 147s but I won't. He never had one against me when we practiced.

[throtts]

WT was kack under the cosh. No bottle, Tel..

[Terry Davidson]

WT was kack under the cosh. No bottle, Tel..

I think his use of helping side was bad for him and I know he broke down under pressure. I practiced a few times with him when he couldn't get Cliff in.

[throtts]

I remember the sweat coming of Willies head ..

[Cue crafty]

I'm no expert on Big Bill's drinking capacity however I've heard Cliff talk about it. I also played Eddie in Glasgow in a friendly game and the drinks were coming like a freight train. Both Cliff and Bill hustled pool in the States when they were young and there are some stories in Cliff's biography written by Mordechi Richler (spelling?). I have a ton of them, like 'Bionic Frank Jonik' who was a pro around the time of the 6 Million Dollar Man. Watched Kirk Stevens as a kid gambling for $100 a game, 3 reds and giving up a 10-point start (he won).

That's quality stuff Terry, I loved Steve Austin as a kid, even had the doll with the crank arm that lifted the engine, lol. Do you know if Cliff grew up playing pool first and adopted snooker? Or was it the other way around?

Back in the day, most of the Canadians where using resin ferrules regarded for spin, seen a few snooker players using these recently. Goes around and comes around eh.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

No point in discussing anything with you if you don't read or can't understand what people are posting, you belong with travis and Ramon in the forum basement guarding the bee while the rest of us have relevant conversations about snooker.

https://youtu.be/egouKh2eErk

[j6uk]

I'm not inclined to do any more videos as I feel there has been an effort to ruin my credibility and I'm not going to put a video out there to have you come along and trash it with your superior knowledge Jason. I am not going to paint a target on my back for you, Biggie, Travis, Oma, Ramon and Reggie to shoot arrows at it.

forget about all this stuff with sit, please dont say you started a youtube channel just to challenge me and dis prove the so called sit fans on this thread?
what about moving moving on? if you wanna keep pecking away at this side thing okay but it would be a shame considering the other things you could talk about from experience.
i was a junior in the times you were in the uk and remember fondly on how the scene and standard was back then, coud be interesting to explore and unpack it no?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

these shots do come up now and again, and are played at the highest level under whatever conditions.
and if we cant defend evidence backed facts about the game that we love on tsf then what are we here for?

To stroke Terry and Steve's egos. Duh!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Jason...here you are stirring the pot again. I said the shot come up infrequently and I believe this to be true. The shot you set up and Oma's shot did not use SIT to pot the ball, you simply curled the cueball into the potting position and it was the same with Oma's and this type of shot comes up more frequently at the top level of snooker. You insist SIT is the only way a player can make these shots but if you look at Oma's shot especially he used far too much pace and the experts say pace eliminates SIT.

Your black ball was 1/8th covered and I measured it and I was able to make the shot easily and at some pace so no SIT to me. You believe what you want but snooker players have been making these shots for decades and haven't heard of SIT.

SIT is being touted here as the new 'discipline' we should all pay attention to but I am comfortable with being able to use swerve without trying to calculate how much speed and side I can put on the cueball in order to make the pot. That calculation is beyond me and even Travis, our resident expert, says he isn't certain how this spin actually works and insists it's SIT potting the ball. This will do most player's head in. As I said, believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

Your video was actually 'cute' and that's exactly what you accused me of.

Wow. You don't want to complicate things by calculating how much speed and side to put on the cue ball, so you {christ on a bike} stick to swerve?

https://youtu.be/OnZQF-3UHag

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

There you go again Travis, putting words in my mouth. How many times do I have to say 'SIT EXISTS' in order for you to read and understand. I have managed to OVER-STRAIGHTEN the black ball shot to where the black hits the top cushion 2" before the corner pocket. I didn't video it because I know how to do it and figured no one would believe the video anyway and figure I faked it somehow. I didn't.

This bears repeating

https://youtu.be/OnZQF-3UHag

[Cue crafty]

This bears repeating

https://youtu.be/OnZQF-3UHag

Speaking of bears ; ) lol.

Quote Originally Posted by Hello, Mr Big Shot

Then retract and apologise.

I remember hearing a good joke once about a hunter who kept trying to kill a bear but failed each time and got buggered by the bear.... after several failed attempts the bear says " you're not here for the hunting are you"? You're not here for the snooker are you Biggie? Lol.

No cheap shots...well maybe the odd one if its funny... Original Source: Allowing for side http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...#ixzz4tunBXqD9 - TSF -

[Terry Davidson]

Wow. You don't want to complicate things by calculating how much swerve and side to put on the cue ball, so you {christ on a bike} stick to swerve?

https://youtu.be/OnZQF-3UHag

Now Biggy, you've already criticized me for not using side and no, I don't 'stick to swerve' I primarily use what's called 'DRAG' but perhaps you don't know what that is?

[Terry Davidson]

You straightened the black up in your video, but you said you didn't!
Your confusing the life out of me Tel!

As a matter of fact I went down to my table just now and tried a 3/4 black with helping, inside and drag and all results were very similar although I was able to hold the spot better using centre-ball drag. Perhaps it's what a player is used to.

Then since you said you could hold the spot on a 1/2-ball black using helping side. So I tried to do that but couldn't hold the spot (and missed a few pots too). Tried the 1/2-ball with inside side and drag and achieved the best result with the inside side.

Although we haven't had Ramon get a screen shot of my blacks I believe it was just a matter of too little side and maybe too much pace. To me the black looked like it went where I hit it (i.e. - 180* opposite contact point). Pretty soon you'll be seeing SIT for every shot anyone plays and you'll convince the players on here they should use side on every shot they play except dead-in pots except perhaps even then if you want to move the cueball.

Actually I watched Ronnie in a 2017 tournament where he had a dead-in blue and needed to get at a red down near the black. He hit the blue hard with a ton of side, caught the side jaw and missed the pot, but he overshot the red. Players should think about it if even someone as good as him misses when using side. No SIT could have been involved though, just cueball throw from the side which he misjudged.

I think the correct shot for every player is the one he is most used to. For you it's with side and for me I'd rather use drag unless the angle is too steep then I would choose another way to get position.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Interesting. I don't remember that string at all so it must have been while I was sick 18 month ago. I checked your link but no comments from me although I agree with most of the comments. I noticed the term 'SIT' isn't mentioned and Big Shot or you didn't get on there and trash everyone. It looks to me like we've gone back a ways and are making no progress as a civil discussion forum.

I see it was 2014 and I did comment on page 1 and I believe this was a heated discussion I had with vmax regarding 'helping side' as he is an advocate and I'm not. Thorne used it on every shot that wasn't straight in and although he managed over 600 x 147s he only won one ranking tournament in his career. I could comment on those 147s but I won't. He never had one against me when we practiced.

I remember that thread lol.

Vmax, eh? Born winner, that boy.

Pity pedantic stroke isn't still around - i wondered whether he was a lad that used to post good content on azbilliards, good player with multiple maxis. Dunno, but knows his stuff.

[travisbickle]

As a matter of fact I went down to my table just now and tried a 3/4 black with helping, inside and drag and all results were very similar although I was able to hold the spot better using centre-ball drag. Perhaps it's what a player is used to.

Then since you said you could hold the spot on a 1/2-ball black using helping side. So I tried to do that but couldn't hold the spot (and missed a few pots too). Tried the 1/2-ball with inside side and drag and achieved the best result with the inside side.

Although we haven't had Ramon get a screen shot of my blacks I believe it was just a matter of too little side and maybe too much pace. To me the black looked like it went where I hit it (i.e. - 180* opposite contact point). Pretty soon you'll be seeing SIT for every shot anyone plays and you'll convince the players on here they should use side on every shot they play except dead-in pots except perhaps even then if you want to move the cueball.

Actually I watched Ronnie in a 2017 tournament where he had a dead-in blue and needed to get at a red down near the black. He hit the blue hard with a ton of side, caught the side jaw and missed the pot, but he overshot the red. Players should think about it if even someone as good as him misses when using side. No SIT could have been involved though, just cueball throw from the side which he misjudged.

I think the correct shot for every player is the one he is most used to. For you it's with side and for me I'd rather use drag unless the angle is too steep then I would choose another way to get position.

It was throw Tel, nothing else. Open your eyes!
Again I never said I can hold a half ball pot on the spot lol