potting just with sides

[OmaMiesta]

I aim the same way, I get down aiming almost full ball and adjust using very slight micro-adjustments of helping side on most pots. Nothing wrong with it as long as youre comfortable, it works, and you practice enough imo

[throtts]

Hi Derek,

Towards the end of a break when there is one singular red left sometimes a ""bit"" of side is helpful for ideal position. Like my practice workout the other day with one red on the table, placed 2" above the pink ( blue side ), only available in to black corner pockets, and getting on that red from a thin ( less than 1/4 ) potted black off its spot. EG - Green side potting the black, hitting CB at 7 o'clock to then pot the red same pocket. Plain bull would give you less control of the CB and would end up further away from the red. And, yes, I would play this shot in a match because it feels comfortable.

I understand your point though of course. Had a 2 hr practice earlier and did notice that I do mix it up during a break.

As I say, side is useful for tight position and that includes even if your not using a cushion.

[Ramon]

I walk into the shot and in my minds eye I use the ghost ball theory from above the shot i judge the angle and put my cue on that line. If you concentrate then only on delivering the cue on a straight line you can be confident in the trajectory of the ball (this is where side is hard because it's judgement you have to readjust the line, so as a default any pot should be plain ball its the easiest shot).

If you miss that ball thin or thick then you make a note of how you missed it and try the shot again with the adjustment, to me thats the easiest most logical way to find the potting angle for any shot. Saying 'yeah i use side cos it seemed easier that day or the pro's use side off the back cushion so I'm going to do it to me isnt strong enough to stand up to pressure in even a friendly league game you need to have confidence in the line your picking cos like i said before in the previous post you are going to need to play balls plain ball more often than you'll need side so stick with the simple option.

The greatest break builders don't even use cushions for half the break it's all soft stuns and screws with centre ball that's all you want to be doing using the cushion complicates matters too.

What if the potting angle is correct, and you just do'nt hit the CB exactly at the center and you gonna put some unwanted side in CB and miss the pott.
How you gonna find out that the potting angle was wrong ?

I mean, do you know a player (including pros) who's able to cue stright and hit the CB exactly in the center all the time and in a consistent way?

No criticism to your post, btw .
It's just a question.

[throtts]

What if the potting angle is correct, and you just do'nt hit the CB exactly at the center and you gonna put some unwanted side in CB and miss the pott.
How you gonna find out that the potting angle was wrong ?

Agree. We all yap on on here and pointers are good but we all just have to find out ourselves and find out our own technique that suits each and one of us.

And yes, a lot do not hit centre ball, thats why it is good to learn the impact of it so you can make the necessary adjustments.

[147_shark]

potting just with sides

i used to play like that...trouble is you will end up using side on all ur shots...it may work for a few days but the moment you switch to another table with a different cloth...different balls..you will notice that it simply doesnt work...best to learn your angles with centre ball striking and use side only when you really have to...

[Derek P]

My two pence worth on what if you don't hit centre ball question from Ramon:

If you can't hit plain ball centre striking consistently you need to find out why, yes pro's put in a quick one now and again but it's usually through pressure or maybe lapse of concentration generally they hit the cue ball where they address it otherwise they wouldnt be on TV and still playing the amatuer game.

So if the OP is cueing across the ball alot then he needs to work on centre ball striking in his solo practice sessions 5 out of 10 long blues from the baulk line would be acceptable normal level of amatuer cue actions. Better amatuers would get 7-8 out of ten a professional would likely get 10 out of 10 up to 15 out of 15 probably.

Once you know you can put the white on a straight line you'll work out potting angles, side should never come into someone's game at this level.
Yes it is used for certain shots and yes it helps with positional play that isnt the debate here even though I'm telling him to hit centre ball I'm not some anti-side guru believe it or not I know the shots in the game when side's useful but common sense says dont tell someone who's starting out to pot all balls with varying amounts of side cos it's just going to screw up his game BIG TIME

[Derek P]

i used to play like that...trouble is you will end up using side on all ur shots...it may work for a few days but the moment you switch to another table with a different cloth...different balls..you will notice that it simply doesnt work...best to learn your angles with centre ball striking and use side only when you really have to...

Couldn't have said it any better, especially going from club tables using side to pot every ball on to a match table good luck with the strachan 6811 TC's and tighter bags and side I don't fancy it myself but I'm not the best player in the world never said I was just don't want to make the game more complicated than it has to be.

[Drac]

I aim the same way, I get down aiming almost full ball and adjust using very slight micro-adjustments of helping side on most pots. Nothing wrong with it as long as youre comfortable, it works, and you practice enough imo

I'm outta here...............

[Derek P]

I'm outta here...............

Yeah we've already had this debate, each to their own on playing with side I'm not saying I'm god of the green baize far from it but from what I've learned in my own game and spoken to other's more experienced than me I'm in the 'centre ball camp' unless you need the side to widen an angle further from a cushion just hit it plain ball.

especially now the art of break building by the best like Ronnie & John etc it's clear to see everything they do is little 4-6 inch screw and stun shots very rarely is the white left to run.

I think this applies double for a novice club player which I feel the OP is saying he is by asking 'how do i find the angle to pot the black when it's past half ball that's pretty rudimentary level and it's important he gets the basics of the game correct if he's to progress further with his skills he needs strong foundations.

[qc2]

Its a wind up. Is thats your side kick, biggie, the dude that got banned..hahaha..

If I am wrong, I will be very apologetic, Sir....

the longer this thread goes on the more I think you were right all along

[nishant]

This is gonna be a long one so bare with me.

----------------------
As someone mentioned in this thread that using "helping side" to pot isn't really an ideal way to learn as the amount of throw you get changes on every table, every new set of balls and every different cue. To test this out, I practised on another table with a different cue and yeah he was right. While, short pots were still the same, I definitely noticed my cue ball wasn't travelling the same direction as it would on my regular table. So thank you for that explanation. It made me re-consider my decision to practice potting only with helping sides.
----------------------

--------------------
My issue-
I have always missed thin cuts (anything beyond 1/2 ball). Since I miss almost all of those cuts, I decided to start over-cutting everything, might as well miss the other way. Initially, I had this feeling of my body was really reluctant. I could feel my bridge was kind of pushing towards the thick side (instead of over-cutting). My legs would try to push me towards the thick part of the object ball even though i intentionally positioned my self to thin-cut it. After may be a couple of hours, I felt more "free" in terms of my body not trying to decide where to go and would just stay on the line I decided while walking into the shot.

After may be a hundred intentionally over-cut shots, I tried to actually pot the balls that I couldn't otherwise. This time, my body didn't throw me off, I could post like 60% of the balls without any issues and can clearly see the line of aim while top-viewing the shot. Its been 2 days now since I've practising this way with center-cue'd CB. I definitely see a lot of improvement. I find it easier to pot anything between blue and black now with success ratio of around 85%, which was initially less than 25% IF the shot was thinner than 1/2 ball. I figured may be it was because of years of wrong-sighting lead to my body being rigid to actually let me play thin cuts. Its hard to put it in words but I can feel my body is more inclined towards the outer edge of the object ball and then I can make micro-adjustments depending on the shot.
---------------------

All in all, thank you everyone here for your inputs. I agree that "helping side" pots are just temporary. While they may show instant increase in the pot ratio, it will eventually wear off and frustrate even more when you are on another setup.

[Derek P]

This is gonna be a long one so bare with me.

----------------------
As someone mentioned in this thread that using "helping side" to pot isn't really an ideal way to learn as the amount of throw you get changes on every table, every new set of balls and every different cue. To test this out, I practised on another table with a different cue and yeah he was right. While, short pots were still the same, I definitely noticed my cue ball wasn't travelling the same direction as it would on my regular table. So thank you for that explanation. It made me re-consider my decision to practice potting only with helping sides.
----------------------

--------------------
My issue-
I have always missed thin cuts (anything beyond 1/2 ball). Since I miss almost all of those cuts, I decided to start over-cutting everything, might as well miss the other way. Initially, I had this feeling of my body was really reluctant. I could feel my bridge was kind of pushing towards the thick side (instead of over-cutting). My legs would try to push me towards the thick part of the object ball even though i intentionally positioned my self to thin-cut it. After may be a couple of hours, I felt more "free" in terms of my body not trying to decide where to go and would just stay on the line I decided while walking into the shot.

After may be a hundred intentionally over-cut shots, I tried to actually pot the balls that I couldn't otherwise. This time, my body didn't throw me off, I could post like 60% of the balls without any issues and can clearly see the line of aim while top-viewing the shot. Its been 2 days now since I've practising this way with center-cue'd CB. I definitely see a lot of improvement. I find it easier to pot anything between blue and black now with success ratio of around 85%, which was initially less than 25% IF the shot was thinner than 1/2 ball. I figured may be it was because of years of wrong-sighting lead to my body being rigid to actually let me play thin cuts. Its hard to put it in words but I can feel my body is more inclined towards the outer edge of the object ball and then I can make micro-adjustments depending on the shot.
---------------------

All in all, thank you everyone here for your inputs. I agree that "helping side" pots are just temporary. While they may show instant increase in the pot ratio, it will eventually wear off and frustrate even more when you are on another setup.

Glad it helped you out, hitting the centre of the white and knowing all the potting angles associated to centre ball striking is the foundation of snooker, don't let anyone else tell you differently. There are too many variables with the throw of side and I would bet most professionals, professional coaches or even 100 break amatuer players will tell you the exact same thing I've said.

Whoever is holding the cue at the table it's up to them if they want to play pots with side, I'm not saying you can't do that if you want. What I'm saying is that Steve Davis playing the cue ball up and down the spots for an hour before every practice session and stunning in 21 long balls from the baulk line is half the reason why he was a 6 time world champion cos he could consistently find the centre of the white. You don't need side at least 80-90% of the time if your cue ball is at the correct angle to get you to your next ball all you'll be doing is playing little stun's soft screw's and run throughs if you don't believe me watch Ronnie, John Higgins or Hendry break building and hitting a ton and tell me how many shots out of the 30-40 or so that they even use a cushion never mind side I would bet it's within 10-20% of the shots.

Keep practising hitting the centre of the cue ball i guarantee your game will improve the better you are at playing centre ball.

[nishant]

Glad it helped you out, hitting the centre of the white and knowing all the potting angles associated to centre ball striking is the foundation of snooker, don't let anyone else tell you differently. There are too many variables with the throw of side and I would bet most professionals, professional coaches or even 100 break amatuer players will tell you the exact same thing I've said.

Whoever is holding the cue at the table it's up to them if they want to play pots with side, I'm not saying you can't do that if you want. What I'm saying is that Steve Davis playing the cue ball up and down the spots for an hour before every practice session and stunning in 21 long balls from the baulk line is half the reason why he was a 6 time world champion cos he could consistently find the centre of the white. You don't need side at least 80-90% of the time if your cue ball is at the correct angle to get you to your next ball all you'll be doing is playing little stun's soft screw's and run throughs if you don't believe me watch Ronnie, John Higgins or Hendry break building and hitting a ton and tell me how many shots out of the 30-40 or so that they even use a cushion never mind side I would bet it's within 10-20% of the shots.

Keep practising hitting the centre of the cue ball i guarantee your game will improve the better you are at playing centre ball.

Agreed. After grinding 16 hours on the table in just past 2 days, I can definitely tell that it was my body that was used to push my bridge and cue towards full ball. That's what made me always undercut the shots and never being able to see the angles. After "letting go" of the fear or missing the shots, I could see the actual angles now. The only time I miss a shot now is when I don't cue straight.

Only time I use sides now is when I am potting a black to come off the top cushion back onto another red. For some reason, using side on that shot makes it easier. Otherwise, simply center-ball on all the shots and results are amazing. I'd love to put up a video of my practising so that I can get more accurate input from you but I don't know how to. I have an iPhone 7+ but I dont know how to set it up on / near the table.

[Derek P]

Agreed. After grinding 16 hours on the table in just past 2 days, I can definitely tell that it was my body that was used to push my bridge and cue towards full ball. That's what made me always undercut the shots and never being able to see the angles. After "letting go" of the fear or missing the shots, I could see the actual angles now. The only time I miss a shot now is when I don't cue straight.

Only time I use sides now is when I am potting a black to come off the top cushion back onto another red. For some reason, using side on that shot makes it easier. Otherwise, simply center-ball on all the shots and results are amazing. I'd love to put up a video of my practising so that I can get more accurate input from you but I don't know how to. I have an iPhone 7+ but I dont know how to set it up on / near the table.

Like I said they'll be 10-20% of your shots where side or helping side is a good shot, off the back cushion yes I agree some players will prefer to play that shot with a little side to take the pace off the shot and give a more focused reaction on the white by marginally cheating the cutting angle to more of a full ball contact with the side reacting off the OB.

Myself personally I'll usually use varying degree's of stun or make sure I have the right angle to put the white where i want obviously there are times though when you need that little bit of side to get there tho as you didnt land exactly as you wanted classic example of this is when your straight on the black you screw back with reverse side to get the white up the table towards the pink spot or if your just slightly high then top it round off 2 cushions with a little side which means you'll not need as much pace in the shot to achieve a similar position with plain ball top.

[throtts]

Only time I use sides now is when I am potting a black to come off the top cushion back onto another red. For some reason, using side on that shot makes it easier.

nish,

Are you sure your getting through the CB for the above mentioned black?. Its a funny oll game. On certain shots some players seem to not get through the CB that well, like a bad habit.

Just a consideration, bud....