Punishment from playing better players

[Derek P]

I've recently got a couple of new practice partners who are awesome players I spent the majority of the time just picking out balls for the guys and then jawing a long ball or just being slightly short on the safety or looking utterly crap when I run out position on 20 odd and then frame is over.

How much does this help your own game?
Do you have experience yourself of when you started to play players of the higher standard?
I know it does help lot but just have never had the chance to play with players consistently above 100 break level, I guess I'm hoping to 'sink or swim' as I know practicing with friends or people who are giving me 4 and 5 chances to win frames isn't going to make me any better a player and the general consensous is you need to punch up a bit to learn how to do it.

I'm sure lots of the experienced players have went through this kind of apprenticeship what did you find and how did it work for you?

[tedisbill]

Well, my mate kicks my arse every time I play him. He had ANOTHER 147 against me last week.

It's one thing standing there and feeling sorry for yourself, so watch and learn instead.

They're not better than you just because they can pot a bit better. There will be no end of reasons why they are better than you.

It's the biggest reason I went from having a high break of 37, to having had lots of century breaks.

Watch and learn.

[dcrackers147]

I've recently got a couple of new practice partners who are awesome players I spent the majority of the time just picking out balls for the guys and then jawing a long ball or just being slightly short on the safety or looking utterly crap when I run out position on 20 odd and then frame is over.

How much does this help your own game?
Do you have experience yourself of when you started to play players of the higher standard?
I know it does help lot but just have never had the chance to play with players consistently above 100 break level, I guess I'm hoping to 'sink or swim' as I know practicing with friends or people who are giving me 4 and 5 chances to win frames isn't going to make me any better a player and the general consensous is you need to punch up a bit to learn how to do it.

I'm sure lots of the experienced players have went through this kind of apprenticeship what did you find and how did it work for you?

100% have to go through this to improve. I remember experiencing this as a teenager and it wrecks your confidence at first. If you can stick with it though playing this sort of level teaches you to make the most of your chances. To always play the right shot and not take liberties. Also approach the game properly in terms of thinking about breaks keeping the % in your favour. Once you start applying all of this subconsciously you will start applying pressure to these players and believe me everybody is human they will start to miss a little more and you will start to take frames. My advice is to not think about what they are doing it's easy to sit back and admire. Instead think about your game and go through those positive thoughts in your head even whilst picking balls out. This will put you in a better frame of mind when your chance comes. Enjoy the process

[Derek P]

Well, my mate kicks my arse every time I play him. He had ANOTHER 147 against me last week.

It's one thing standing there and feeling sorry for yourself, so watch and learn instead.

They're not better than you just because they can pot a bit better. There will be no end of reasons why they are better than you.

It's the biggest reason I went from having a high break of 37, to having had lots of century breaks.

Watch and learn.

Yeah I notice one of my mates who makes consistent centuries is just plum on everything positional play, his shot selection is far superior to mine I thought I kind of knew what shot's to play but noticed he often plays a slightly riskier shot to open up balls or get things into more favourable positions where I just chip away at reds then wind up running out of options.

Safety was top class too obviously not just they can pot better clearly its many reasons as you said but it's good to watch feels bit embarassing when you can only make a 20 odds against them right enough but such is part of the learning I guess.

How long did it take you to go from the 37 to the ton?
My highest break since I came back playing is 89 I had 90s before I stopped 5 years ago but it's nowhere near the consistency I would like that heavier scoring to be in frames when I get a few chances I'll make more consistently in the 40-50s but obviously I want the big breaks to be more regular and get to the hundred break kind of level.

[Derek P]

100% have to go through this to improve. I remember experiencing this as a teenager and it wrecks your confidence at first. If you can stick with it though playing this sort of level teaches you to make the most of your chances. To always play the right shot and not take liberties. Also approach the game properly in terms of thinking about breaks keeping the % in your favour. Once you start applying all of this subconsciously you will start applying pressure to these players and believe me everybody is human they will start to miss a little more and you will start to take frames. My advice is to not think about what they are doing it's easy to sit back and admire. Instead think about your game and go through those positive thoughts in your head even whilst picking balls out. This will put you in a better frame of mind when your chance comes. Enjoy the process

Thanks mate yeah I feel at the start of it just now I'm slightly in awe of it at times but in a positive way I don't feel bad am getting hammered it's not about winning for me I just want to play best I can and learn from it so would rather take some hammerings and see how it's done kind of thing.

I guess as time goes on and I get more chances to play guys like that level then I'm only going to improve.

[tedisbill]

It took me 2.5 years to get my first ton. I'd had 80s and 90s before then, but never quite managed a ton. I missed the pink clearing up on 87 after 1 year of playing ha!!

[dcrackers147]

Thanks mate yeah I feel at the start of it just now I'm slightly in awe of it at times but in a positive way I don't feel bad am getting hammered it's not about winning for me I just want to play best I can and learn from it so would rather take some hammerings and see how it's done kind of thing.

I guess as time goes on and I get more chances to play guys like that level then I'm only going to improve.

Like I said if you sit there picking balls out in awe you will find it very difficult to compete/ make the most of your chances as few as they maybe. Next time you play one of them set yourself a mini goal. If you don't achieve it reflect on reasons why. By all means ask for advice after the session, I learnt so much growing up annoying a couple of guys who were considered the very best in the area at the time. These guys are now really close friends of mine and we practice together to this day. Although the punishment is 50/50 these days .

[Derek P]

Like I said if you sit there picking balls out in awe you will find it very difficult to compete/ make the most of your chances as few as they maybe. Next time you play one of them set yourself a mini goal. If you don't achieve it reflect on reasons why. By all means ask for advice after the session, I learnt so much growing up annoying a couple of guys who were considered the very best in the area at the time. These guys are now really close friends of mine and we practice together to this day. Although the punishment is 50/50 these days .

Mini goal 1. = win 1 frame
Mini goal 2. = not allowed to be one of the scrappy one's

and I'm still at the level I do daft things like that so frustrating tedisbill on your 87 some days I can be on 60-70 odd but I'm running out of easy reds miss a cannon or jaw something difficult down the rail but I'm not too dissapointed with those its those daft ones like other day i missed the pink on 60 i was bang on it aswell so no reason to miss I had potted so many good balls and played nice shots to get down there then duff the second last ball just concentration i think which I'm hoping will improve by the pressure being applied to me by higher quality practice partners I'll need every ball I can to win a frame against lower players or players level with myself I'm winning the frames long before I would need the last 2 balls when I am getting way too many chances to make breaks it's no great achievement when you can win a frame in 1-2 chances alone that to me is only happening once every 10-20 frames i play the rest of the time I'm below that level of consistency.

[bigandyg]

Remember a young Hendry was happy to get whipped by Steve Davis in ten or a dozen challenge matches just to learn .

[Derek P]

Remember a young Hendry was happy to get whipped by Steve Davis in ten or a dozen challenge matches just to learn .

Yeah I'm happy to take the leatherings when I can mate, can only improve from it.

[dcrackers147]

Remember a young Hendry was happy to get whipped by Steve Davis in ten or a dozen challenge matches just to learn .

knowing what Henry is like and his mind set though I am sure he would have been obsessing over ways to eventually dominate the Nugget

[Tommykiid]

Punishment from playing better players

going through this myself at the minute joined a new club and the lads are fantastic on and off the table pushes you to the practice table and want to improve and slowly in increments it seems to be happening

[tedisbill]

Mini goal 1. = win 1 frame
Mini goal 2. = not allowed to be one of the scrappy one's

and I'm still at the level I do daft things like that so frustrating tedisbill on your 87 some days I can be on 60-70 odd but I'm running out of easy reds miss a cannon or jaw something difficult down the rail but I'm not too dissapointed with those its those daft ones like other day i missed the pink on 60 i was bang on it aswell so no reason to miss I had potted so many good balls and played nice shots to get down there then duff the second last ball just concentration i think which I'm hoping will improve by the pressure being applied to me by higher quality practice partners I'll need every ball I can to win a frame against lower players or players level with myself I'm winning the frames long before I would need the last 2 balls when I am getting way too many chances to make breaks it's no great achievement when you can win a frame in 1-2 chances alone that to me is only happening once every 10-20 frames i play the rest of the time I'm below that level of consistency.

I've never really thought it was lack of concentration. Whenever I was on for a good break, I was concentrating more than ever.

It would have been things like bad shot selection, knowing exactly how to play certain shots, what order to take the last few balls in. All things like that would have stopped me.

I can't say it's ever been concentration with me. I wouldn't suddenly forget to concentrate on 70+.

[dcrackers147]

I've never really thought it was lack of concentration. Whenever I was on for a good break, I was concentrating more than ever.

It would have been things like bad shot selection, knowing exactly how to play certain shots, what order to take the last few balls in. All things like that would have stopped me.

I can't say it's ever been concentration with me. I wouldn't suddenly forget to concentrate on 70+.

I think what you have described is learning from experience and a natural progression in the learning process in getting to 100 break standard. As Derek P has said it's those last few tricky balls he is struggling with. I am sure you would agree that it's likely at some point during Derek's breaks of 70 - 80 that there would have been good opportunities to bring those tricky balls into play whilst maintaining good position. It's just recognising those shots and the pattern of the balls. Of course there are times when the opportunities don't present themselves to make an easier 100. This is when you simply have to play to give yourself a shot be it a tough one down the rail or sometimes even a double and play it with a what will be will be mindset.

[tedisbill]

I think what you have described is learning from experience and a natural progression in the learning process in getting to 100 break standard. As Derek P has said it's those last few tricky balls he is struggling with. I am sure you would agree that it's likely at some point during Derek's breaks of 70 - 80 that there would have been good opportunities to bring those tricky balls into play whilst maintaining good position. It's just recognising those shots and the pattern of the balls. Of course there are times when the opportunities don't present themselves to make an easier 100. This is when you simply have to play to give yourself a shot be it a tough one down the rail or sometimes even a double and play it with a what will be will be mindset.

Yes that's right. So many times you see players leave all the problems until the end and then it all falls apart.