Deep Screw with Side

[davyp26uk]

I have great difficulty in playing a deepish screwback with side.

I either miss the pot, get the side but no screw back distance or a deep screw but no side.

Any hints and or tips would be welcome.

[Mellow Yellow]

Do you mean screwing back onto the cushion with side/reverse side or do you mean a screw shot with a banana like arc?

[dannyd0g]

I have great difficulty in playing a deepish screwback with side.

I either miss the pot, get the side but no screw back distance or a deep screw but no side.

Any hints and or tips would be welcome.

Are you sure you are strikingthe cue ball where you are aiming the tip? If so, and your cue action is good, then it should work.

Its probably the toughest shot in the book to play well, and to get the pot of course.

May be worth only attempting to do it on easyish pots. The chances of playing this shot successfully on any half difficult or worse pot are tough even for the pros.

Just practice it on easy close range shots to start with. Build up some reliabilty playing these with screw side on these and then move on to tougher, longer pots once you know you have the fundametals of the shot.

[trevs1]

This is a very advanced type of shot, so isn't easy to give useable advice on a forum.

What you could perhaps start with, is to play a very simple straight shot, like a ball into the centre pocket, with just deep screw, with the white no more than 20" to 24" from the cushion and the object ball just a foot or so away. Then, after a few successful attempts at this, move the point of contact on the cueball further and further to one side with every succesful attempt, to create the desired amount of side on the white. By doing this, you are allowing yourself the opportunity to see how the slight variation in contact point is affecting the shot.

If you find that you are getting excessive opposite movement (white pushes to the right when struck left of centre, and vice versa) of the cueball to the point at which you are making contact, then maybe your cue is not the most reliable when striking off centre. This in itself is enough to make this type of shot almost unplayable over any reasonable distance.

As I said, it's not the easiest shot in the book to get consistently right.

[archalf1471]

I can't play any shot at the moment well, Trev what do you advise??? Ha ha!

[davyp26uk]

Do you mean screwing back onto the cushion with side/reverse side or do you mean a screw shot with a banana like arc?

It's primarily the screw shot with side/reverse side back onto the cushion. Mainly when I've come too straight on the black and need a bit of runing side to get nice on the yellow or some other ball in Baulk. I'm usually ok at arcing type of screw shot and use that quite a lot for going into the pack or when playing billiards.

I really find the screwback onto the cushion with reverse side almost impossible.

[dannyd0g]

It's primarily the screw shot with side/reverse side back onto the cushion. Mainly when I've come too straight on the black and need a bit of runing side to get nice on the yellow or some other ball in Baulk. I'm usually ok at arcing type of screw shot and use that quite a lot for going into the pack or when playing billiards.

I really find the screwback onto the cushion with reverse side almost impossible.

I find this strange. If you can arc the cueball you must have a very good cue action, getting side on a screwback off a cush should be easy by comparison.

I say this Judging by my own play atleast, as i can sometimes play a good screw back with side off a cush. But I have never been able to do a nice arc shot on a screwback atall.

[davyp26uk]

I find this strange. If you can arc the cueball you must have a very good cue action, getting side on a screwback off a cush should be easy by comparison.

I say this Judging by my own play atleast, as i can sometimes play a good screw back with side off a cush. But I have never been able to do a nice arc shot on a screwback atall.

You really don't need side on the ball to arc it when screwing back. It really depends on how much of the object ball you are hitting. e.g. If you hit the object hard about half ball with deep screw, then the foward momentum of the cue ball will carry it forward before the screw takes effect. It's when the screw takes effect that you get the ball to arc.

To get a nice arc this way you have to have a really relaxed cueing arm and really push the cue through smoothly and accelerate through the cue ball. I can't do it with a full ball contact though.

[trevs1]

I can't play any shot at the moment well, Trev what do you advise??? Ha ha!

Eyes and arms transplant.......ha.

[trevs1]

You really don't need side on the ball to arc it when screwing back. It really depends on how much of the object ball you are hitting. e.g. If you hit the object hard about half ball with deep screw, then the foward momentum of the cue ball will carry it forward before the screw takes effect. It's when the screw takes effect that you get the ball to arc.

To get a nice arc this way you have to have a really relaxed cueing arm and really push the cue through smoothly and accelerate through the cue ball. I can't do it with a full ball contact though.

Whether the cueball gets this 'arcing' type effect when playing shots with deep screw is possibly more to do with the cloth than anything else, although you'll still have to strike the ball well, naturally. A newer and finer cloth will allow the spin on the white to take effect far easier than on a worn, old and coarse feeling cloth. It makes an enormous difference.

Also...

The reason you are not able to achieve this arcing effect on full ball pots is due to the fact that if there's backspin on the cueball, then upon contact, the white only has a simple reverse direction to travel in. As you pointed out yourself in post number 8, the effect is only noticed when you make a less than full ball contact with the object ball.

Try playing these shots with screw and side and make sure of aiming, and more importantly, STRIKING well off centre, but don't put too much distance between white and object ball, say no more than 2 foot.

Let us know what pocket you are playing the shot into, AND, what side you are putting on the white ball. Then, let us know which side of the pocket you are missing the shots towards.

Unless it's missed to the same side of the table every time, I can't suggest anything to help you.

[davis_greatest]

trevs1 has already given good advice. The only other thing I would suggest is finding someone knowledgeable about the game to watch you as you play this shot and see if you are striking the cue ball as intended.

It may be that, in putting the side on, you are cueing slightly across the white at the last moment (i.e. the cue tip is not travelling parallel to the intended path of the cue ball), causing you to miss the pot; or that when you put the side on properly and concentrate on cueing straight, the tip comes up too high or you do not follow through sufficiently, resulting in insufficient backspin being applied; or that in following through properly, you do not strike the ball sufficiently on the side, meaning that no (or little) sidespin is applied.

Someone who understands about technique, watching you, should be able to see what is happening at the moment you strike the cue ball. You may have difficulty seeing it yourself while down on the shot and focusing on the object ball.

As others have noted, and you are already aware - it is not an easy shot to play well and consistently, and the quality of the cloth matters.

[davyp26uk]

Thanks Guys I'll try what you have suggested.

[cocked hat]

Hi Davy,
I'm adding my two pennorth to this as I think the problem is often caused by allowing incorrectly for throw.The cue ball as we all know is thrown slightly off course by the cue action as you apply the spin,however,the throw is less as you apply more bottom.Don't know why this is,it must be due to the weight of the cue ball,it means however that for the same amount of side-spin there is a different aiming point for a deep screw shot than for a dead ball shot.
The amount this varies is governed by the 'playability'of your cue.

[davyp26uk]

Hi Davy,
I'm adding my two pennorth to this as I think the problem is often caused by allowing incorrectly for throw.The cue ball as we all know is thrown slightly off course by the cue action as you apply the spin,however,the throw is less as you apply more bottom.Don't know why this is,it must be due to the weight of the cue ball,it means however that for the same amount of side-spin there is a different aiming point for a deep screw shot than for a dead ball shot.
The amount this varies is governed by the 'playability'of your cue.

Thanks again mate.