Some basic draw questions

[bongo]

Blade, For the best draw technique, on the follow-through, drop the elbow slightly and close the back of the grip hand, do not grip too tightly and follow through, Do not linge your body at the shot.

I sometimes think that somebody either has it, or not, the abilty for long draw (screw) shots, on a pool table, it is a lot easier, but i'm refering to Snooker when length of the table screws are a lot longer.

It is a good shot to have in your armoury but I would not worry about it too much.

Weightlifting can help, obviously to make you stronger, but remember "The most important technique is to follow-through, a person with just a typical amount of strength can get more screw that the world's strongest man". I hope readers understand what I mean! Getting stronger and stronger may affect your touch for roll-ups as you can sometimes mis-jusge the strength of your arm!!, I am sure that it can happen!!

If you cannot play deep screws then you cannot play deep screws, practise it if you want to, but accuracy is very important, and there are more important shots than monster screws in my opinion.

[snooligan]

Correct, and a good shot to be able to play too.

Not too often though that you need it!

I do understand what you mean of course, but I believe good players should master all the shots as they normally don't know when they'll need'em. The gentleman in my avatar is brilliant amongst the balls yet he can make super draws when the situation requires it.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c4c1nmht1bo

[-Blade-]

I agree in UK 8 ball pool (what I play), monster draw is rarely required but I at least want to know I can pull it off for my confidence. All my "rivals" can, so I want to be able to so I don't feel intimidated. With the confidence, it means I will step up a level.

This is like the bottleneck to my game.

If you cannot play deep screws then you cannot play deep screws

This comment confuses me. Are you implying that it's like a shot which you "either have or don't have"?

I've only been playing for a complete 2 years, so I guess I'm still rather inexperienced. With wrist snapping, I can get spin from close distances.

Anyway, some good advice here, I'll have to have another round of practise.

Someone said that when the cue is going through the white, it should be at its fastest, so does this mean that the cue shouldn't actually be doing any acceleration when it's in contact with the white?

Ta.

[dannyd0g]

How about making it easy for yourself to start with by placing the white just about 6 inches from the object ball. That way it can be relatively easy to get the white zipping back. When you're happy with that you can keep the same 'easy' stroke and action when the white is further away from the object ball.

[-Blade-]

How about making it easy for yourself to start with by placing the white just about 6 inches from the object ball. That way it can be relatively easy to get the white zipping back. When you're happy with that you can keep the same 'easy' stroke and action when the white is further away from the object ball.

This I do. But replicating the technique with larger distances doesn't seem to work. Maybe there is a problem with the pace I play the shot at.

What is the effect of stance and weight distribution in getting draw?

[Theguywithaplan]

I didn't know dom had this kind of cue power: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QIDkCTxBgfE


BTW, do you think this is fake? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m0aU6j7AbKw

[cocked hat]

I think Dominic was expecting to get the pot and reckoned he would be on the blue,he hit it as hard as he possibly could and surprised himself.
I agree,the second vid seems strange,I think it must be a light weight white.Not sure whether watching other players can help in your draw shot though,I think it's just keep on playing them.

[snooligan]

Given the result of the match which meant Dominic wouldn't proceed to the knockout stages, he seemed fairly relaxed & went for everything. Still a great shot though.

Ding's shot against Ronnie in the PL is pure class under pressure and notice how he was so close to the baulk cushion, raising the cue butt & all. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv39q2...eature=related

[CoachGavin]

The shots that are linked are all very good but what must be remembered is that todays cloths and ball are much more responsive that in years gone by. A lot of good amateurs can play similar shots. I think nowadays when a player runs out of position it is a lot easier to use a power shot to get back in prime position whereas perhaps in the 70's and 80's it was nearly physically impossible to play the forcing shot. For instance if you finished the wrong side of the blue a player had to really hit it well to get the white near the pink spot via baulk - nowadays players can force it and get it near the black spot!

Anyway, on original point. I agree with frank callan and earlier point, pull cue back with first finger and wrist should cock. Make sure your back elbow stays high and does not drop as you pull the cue back. Get a friend to make sure the elbow stays at the same level by standing facing you as you play the shot. Then you can drop the elbow as you play the shot and you will find the back of the hand close on the cue, creating power. The same amouont of screw should get a 1 foot screw back from 10 foot away as 10 foot of screw from balls 1 foot apart. However, when the gap between the balls increases a player tends to start 'hitting' the balls and jumping up. Try and keep still for longer and follow through.

[trevs1]

I didn't know dom had this kind of cue power: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QIDkCTxBgfE


BTW, do you think this is fake? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m0aU6j7AbKw

Having known, and practised with Dominic for 15 years or more, I'd have to say the shot shown comes as no surprise at all. He does possess the most imense cuepower and is able to do the same thing on club tables, no problem.

He really does do some stuff on a snooker table that defies belief at times, he's a real talented guy.......Mad.....but talented nonetheless.

[-Blade-]

This is all very interesting.

I've posted about my woes on USA pool forums but I don't know if te techniques I've learnt from there could be applied to a UK pool scenario due to different balls, cues, table heights, etc.

In this one thread, one person has recommended dropping the elbow and the other not. I guess it's just a case of what will work for me. Personally it seems to me that to get the cue flowing through with follow through, the elbow MUST drop? If you bend and straighten your arm, there is only so much range which would equate to only little follow follow through.

In that shot by Ding (I remember seeing that on TV life), he has to raise the cue yes, but I've read that this makes the white spin but retain its spin as it jumps so wouldn't this be the best way to make the white retain spin over a long distance?

Is there a video of this cueing technique with 1/2 fingers and then closing with the rest of the fingers and cocking the wrist?



Are there any techniques to ensure rightful cue acceleration or is it, as usual, down to practise?

How do you ensure the cue doesn't raise when dropping the elbow?

If the cue has to be at its fastest when going THROUGH the white, then I assume there is no acceleration happening as the cue is going through the white?

Perhaps it is wise to let the cue be raised so that when the elbow drops it will raise but still be facing low on the white?

Will the cue be so far into the white when the elbow is raised that it doesn't matter?

If the cue raises during follow through, wouldnt this reduce the draw or is it past the threshold of when it matters (I read somewhere that the cue can only influence the cue ball for 1/100th second of when it's following through or something).

Sorry for all the questions

Thanks

[screwball]

Blade, try not to get mired in "technique". If you watch the players on TV or top players in your area each one has his own style; the secret is to find your own. Basically you want to be able to put the cue on the line of the shot and keep it on that line as you drive through the ball as freely as possible. I think 30 minutes on the practise table trying to develop a straight, free action is better than 3 days of thinking about it. As an experiment try these two things: 1. Place the cueball on the pink spot and try to pocket it in a baulk pocket hitting as low as you can. Don't worry about speed (or an object ball) for now, all you want to do is hit low and straight. You will probably find as you increase your speed you miss the the pot which means your cue is going off line, usually a result of the chest impinging on the cue or moving the shoulder. If you can hit it hard and low and accurately add an object ball about 6 feet away and give it a go. 2. Instead of aiming at one object ball, use two. Set them both for the pocket (ie one right in front of the other on the line of the shot), the greater mass will allow the cueball to come back more easily so you will get a better sense of the spin you are putting on the cueball. As for watching players and trying to emulate them I'd stick to players who have very compact styles such as Carter or Ding.

[bongo]

In that shot by Ding (I remember seeing that on TV life), he has to raise the cue yes, but I've read that this makes the white spin but retain its spin as it jumps so wouldn't this be the best way to make the white retain spin over a long distance? I WAS AT THE VENUE!

Is there a video of this cueing technique with 1/2 fingers and then closing with the rest of the fingers and cocking the wrist? NOT THAT I KNOW OF.



Are there any techniques to ensure rightful cue acceleration or is it, as usual, down to practise? IN MY OPINION, DOWN TO PRACTISE

How do you ensure the cue doesn't raise when dropping the elbow? A TEST THAT I HAVE COME UP WITH IS TO KEEP YOUR HEAD AS STILL AS YOU CAN, AND ADDRESS THE CUE BALL WITH THE CUE TOUCHING THE CHIN, AND KEEP THE CHIN TOUCHING THE CUE AT ALL TIMES UNTIL THE SHOT IS OVER, AND DO NOT MOVE THE HEAD, THIS MEANS THE CUE IS STAYING LEVEL WHILE YOUR CHIN DOES NOT MOVE DOWNWARDS, MAKING YOU THINK THAT YOUR CUE DOES NOT DROP, BUT YOUR HEAD DROPPED ACTUALLY. WHEN YOU SAY CUE BEING RAISED, I ASSUME YOU MEAN RAISED AT THE TIP END. IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? IF YOU DROP THE CUE DOWN TOO MUCH (NOT LITERALLY DROPPING IT) THEN THE CUE WILL HIT THE CUESHION RAIL.
If the cue has to be at its fastest when going THROUGH the white, then I assume there is no acceleration happening as the cue is going through the white? THE CUE HAS TO ACCELLERATE THROUGH THE WHITE, MEANING IT'S AT ITS FASTING AT THE MOMENT OF IMPACT, THIS REQUIRES PERFECT TIMING, AND IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET PERFECT.
Perhaps it is wise to let the cue be raised so that when the elbow drops it will raise but still be facing low on the white? WITH THE CUSHION IN THE WAY, THERE WILL BE A SLOPE, IF YOU FOLLOW THROUGH AND DID NOT DROP THE CUE SLIGHTLY, THEN THE CUE WILL ONLY FOLLOW THROUGH A LITTLE AND THEN HIT THE CLOTH. SO I'D SAY THAT LOWERING AT THE BUTT END DOES NOT HURT TOO MUCH, APART FROM IF YOU DO NOT HIT THE CUE BALL WHERE YOU INTEND.
Will the cue be so far into the white when the elbow is raised that it doesn't matter? YOU NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH BUT WHEN THE WHITE IS DOWN THE TABLE AND AWAY FROM THE CUE TIP, THEN THE FOLLOW THROUGH OF THE CUE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, BUT YOU STILL NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH. IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!

If the cue raises during follow through, wouldnt this reduce the draw or is it past the threshold of when it matters (I read somewhere that the cue can only influence the cue ball for 1/100th second of when it's following through or something). IT WOULD REDUCE IT ONLY IF YOU HIT ABOVE WHERE YOU INTEND FOR A DEEP SCREW SHOT. BUT TRY NOT TO WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT 100THS OF SECONDS, TIMING IS SO IMPORTANT, IF OUR TIMING WAS AS PERFECT AS PERFECTLY POSSIBLE THEN I AM SURE THAT WE COULD SCREW A LOT MORE THAN DOMINIC DALE SCREW SHOT, WHICH WAS SUPER AWESOME!
Sorry for all the questions NO WORRIES!

Thanks NO PROBS!

I hope that this helps,

bongo

[bongo]

Sorry, I messed up making it a quote but my answer is in blue, as screwball said, try not to get mired in technique, we are not perfect, so do not worry about it, well done for taking the time to get the answers though.

That screw shot on the 2nd video was definately fake!

EDIT - I got the quote to work

[bongo]

This comment confuses me. Are you implying that it's like a shot which you "either have or don't have"?

The comment was you've either got it or you 'aint. I'm am inplying that if you cannot play it then do not worry about it, if you have the right technique, then the balls will act in a way that you wants soon, it may be something like a player has not got enough arm strength to play a deep-screw-length-of-the-table-power shot.