Cueing and bridge questions

[-Blade-]

I know this is a lot of questions but these have been asked before but to the result of contradictory advice.

1) When dropping the elbow on the follow through of a shot, does this effect how "straight" one's cueing is? I was at the club today with the intention of experimenting with this but in the midst of playing other club members, didn't really have time to think to come to a conclusion.

2) Also, should the acceleration of the cue in a screw shot finish upon initial contact with the CB? I.E. should the acceleration be through the white or should the acceleration stop when the cue makes initial contact with the CB? The former seems the most logical but I hear a lot of contradictory advice on this forum.

3) One of the most mysterious things is that I can play a long distance pot (white near the top cushion where I break from), OB just below the middle of the table, and follow through into the pocket. Or with the object ball nearer to the end cushion, strike it with top and get plenty of reaction. On these topspin shots, I don't put much effort into the cueing (ie acceleration, follow through), but with draw it takes much more effort to get noway near as much reaction (only a table's worth of draw when the balls are close - 1 foot or less).

This brings me to a question:

With top shots, I play from very high (and very rarely miscue), and of course I chalk my cue with a lot of attention. But with draw, if I strike low I get a lot less reaction. Is the reason I get good top because the white is moving forward and I'm just adding to the forward momentum rather than provide so much draw to overcome the forwards momentum on a draw shot.

Or is it simply the fact that I hit so high on the white I get so much reaction? If I hit equally low will I need a small tip? The problem is I can't see clearly where I'm striking the white as the curvature of the white blocks my view. Would a small tip facilitate hitting the cue ball low in any way (make it easier with less of chance of miscueing due to the size).

I would assume hitting equally low will net me similar results on a draw shots but then I would need to overcome the forwards momentum.

4) Would it be possible to get long distance backspin from hitting a long distance ball at just more than pocket pace, but with lots of acceleration and follow through, getting a table's worth of draw?

5) If there is a long bridge surely this would mean that one would had to stretch their cueing arm to get through the white. So in q 1, with a long bridge distance, accelerating through the white would be extremely awkward, right? It would be like playing on one foot to stretch to the cue ball in an awkward place.

EDIT: Such awkwardness must make the ability to achieve spin even harder.

I've noticed chalk quality can make a world of difference, but the tables I play on are extremely dirty (chalk marks mostly). How detrimental is this to spin? Is it severe enough to make long distance draw shots even harder as to forget about them?

BTW I play UK 8 ball pool so table sizes are considerably smaller than if you were thinking of snooker lol.

Thanks

[thelongbomber]

Yikes thats a lot of questions! I wouldn't call myself a coach, but I know a thing or two about the technical aspect (and love talking about it as you will see). Hopefully my advice here is sound. Coaches, if it isn't, please tell me!

Draw
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OK, first off what you have to understand about draw is that its a non-complimentary reaction. What that means is that normally the CB's natural tendency before getting to the OB is to continue in it's natural path (ie ahead). If you play any shots striking below center the cue ball will be moving forward after striking but will have a tendency to slow down or reverse itself (try deep screw with just a small amount of pace on a dirty table or the draw trickshots striking down on the ball). When you draw a ball, you have to impart enough spin so that the CB still has draw "left" when it strikes the OB.

Topspin, on the other hand, is a complimentary reaction and so is generally considered easier to learn and play predictably. You strike the CB above center, the cue ball is forced ahead (by the strike), and also has a tendency to keep going forward from the complimentary spin you imparted.

In summary, draw is always harder partly because its a non-complimentary reaction.

Dirty tables
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Dirty balls are never desirable, but if you understand the changes in ball reaction, you can turn things to your advantage. Most importantly is something called the "gear effect". If you don't know what it is imagine 1 gear turning against another gear. If gear A goes clockwise, the opposing gear will go counterclockwise. Now imagine viewing this gear effect in fractions of a second in microscopic detail between the CB and OB during the time of impact. The gear effect will become more pronounced with dirtier balls. You can see this clearly with dirty balls in your local pub. Try picking up 2 dirty balls, playing a 3/4 shot with spin, and then the exact same shot (speed, spin, angle) after cleaning the balls. The gear effect is also applicable between the CB and table cloth as well during masse shots.

When balls and table are clean, there is virtually no gear effect and so its less likely balls will masse and be subject to the gear effect. You can see this clearly in televised events where the balls "slide" on the cushion and where masses shots seem to get missed a lot.

[thelongbomber]

Its also worth noting players may use spin to "throw" the OB ball in. Its not magic, its real and its the gear effect. Outside spin (or running side) is easier than inside spin (or check side). Outside spin is complimentary (additive) and inside spin is non-complimentary (non-additive).

For more about the gear effect, see this: http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/~cross/Billiards.htm

[thelongbomber]

WOW! Look at this!! It will give you an understanding of draw shots in super slow motion detail.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/p...eos/index.html

[-Blade-]

Hi,

I've seen that link. This leaves me with two questions (2 and 5 - 2 I hear a lot of contradictory answers).

[Martin76]

In question 2, make sure you understand the difference between acceleration and velocity. This isn't obvious if you haven't studied it.

From what I've heard and read, the best thing is to have maximum acceleration of the cue at the moment of impact (cue on CB). This allows the cue to stay in contact with the CB a fraction of a second longer than if you would hit the CB at a "constant" velocity, and you get more effect on the cue ball as a result. This would be that elusive timing thing everybody keeps ranting on about...

With maximum acceleration at the moment of impact you would get your maximum velocity a fraction of a second after the moment of impact, before the cue must start to slow down (even with a very big follow through the cue must stop sometime).

Disclaimer: This is just what I've heard and deduced on my own to be the physics of it, but it may well be way off base.

The important thing: Don't worry about this kind of stuff. Just make sure to strike through the CB when playing the stroke and you should be alright. Getting the perfect timing on the shot is more a matter of practice and feel, and trying to emulate the times when it just "felt right" than anything else. In an actual stroke everything happens so fast that you wouldn't stand a chance of trying to control when you're reaching "maximum acceleration".

Oh, and on Q5 I guess the answer is "yes". At least if you need to have a really long bridge due to obstructing balls or something. Don't even try to do anything fancy in this situation.
Regarding bridge distance, just make sure that the cue tip can travel at least a few inches past the cue ball.

Just my two cents.

[-Blade-]

The interesting is that I use a short bridge so that would mean that I would inevitably accelerate through the white anyway.

I want to use a long bridge but that would make follow through harder as there'd be significantly less cue to follow through with, right?

[thelongbomber]

The interesting is that I use a short bridge so that would mean that I would inevitably accelerate through the white anyway.

I want to use a long bridge but that would make follow through harder as there'd be significantly less cue to follow through with, right?

You really shouldn't be trying to shorten or lengthen your bridge for the sake of wanting to do so. Assuming you have a "recommended" cue action (ie: wrist, elbow, shoulder, cue all in line) the primary thing to focus on is that your forearm is at a 90-degree angle at the point of contact with the cue ball.