Break Out a pack

[poolqjunkie]

I would like to ask the players about the break out shot from potting the break. I am thinking of the shot whereas you can go into the pack without hitting any cushion.
What I would like to know is if there are certain occassions when you would use side spin to achieve a more favorable outcome? If so, can you specific, please?
Thank you.

[checkSide]

Hi poolq.

English obviously isn't your first language, although you are extremely proficient.

Perhaps you could rephrase the question, as it doesn't make much sense at the moment. I'm sure you'll get some answers then.

[snookerandy]

i think put the white next to the yellow put top on it and hit the second red down and 1 might go in if not i might still go safe... watch the in off though

[dannyd0g]

Hi poolq.

English obviously isn't your first language, although you are extremely proficient.

.

Might be just that the Canadians and Americans use different terms. But "potting the break" is a difficult one to interpret for sure.

Poolq - do you mean trying to pot a red off the break off, or to just play a breakoff shot in general ?

[poolqjunkie]

I am so sorry, I meant to say potting the black. Like when potting the black with sort of between a half ball to a 3/4 ball angles, without touching the bottom cushion, to go into the pack (the red balls, is that called the pack in the UK?).

In some game situations, when the bottom of the pack is "flat" (the reds are sort of parallel to the bottom cushion, all touching or close to touching) I have found that no matter how hard I hit the black, the cue ball will sort of double kiss the red and bounce off to the bottom cushion or just freeze to the reds. Someone told me I should try to put a touch of side spin on the cue ball, so the cue ball will sort of "drill through" the pack. I have tried this but could not get it done.

So, my question is: will using side spin put more "power" into the break-out shot, so the cue ball will do more damage to the pack?
Thank you.

[dannyd0g]

Ah yes it makes a lot more sense now.

This is the "flat back pack" that Willie Thorne and Dennis Taylor like talking about so much.

I'm not a good enough player to play this shot myself, but going by what they say, its not a good pack to go into from the black when they are like that. Better to go into them from a different angle from any other colour instead.

However, if you must go in from the black, WT stresses you must catch a red half ball. If you catch one full ball you will just stick to it and get nowhere.

As to the spins to be applied to the white i think its generally more of a case for stun and screw than side. The way ROS plays these shots the white stops then accelates through the pack when the screw takes effect.

[poolqjunkie]

Ah yes it makes a lot more sense now.

This is the "flat back pack" that Willie Thorne and Dennis Taylor like talking about so much.

I'm not a good enough player to play this shot myself, but going by what they say, its not a good pack to go into from the black when they are like that. Better to go into them from a different angle from any other colour instead.

However, if you must go in from the black, WT stresses you must catch a red half ball. If you catch one full ball you will just stick to it and get nowhere.

As to the spins to be applied to the white i think its generally more of a case for stun and screw than side. The way ROS plays these shots the white stops then accelates through the pack when the screw takes effect.

Thank you so much. Any link to where Wt talked about this, please?

About using screw, I notice that if I put too much screw sometimes it does not really work very well either. For me, it seems to work best when I am using just a bit above screw, or sometimes, like a stun follow almost.
Thank you for your help.

[dannyd0g]

Thank you so much. Any link to where Wt talked about this, please?

.

He talks about it practically every match he commenates on. I dont have any link to it 'in writing' online.

I havent explained the screw/stun thing very well, as its a bit beyond my capabilities and understanding TBH, but the rest of it is pretty much as he tells it.

[ADR147]

the trick i think is never to hit a ball full on because it stops in its tracks - if you can catch an edge or glance off on your way past speed is maintained and the balls split better.

[stegorjus]

If you play with bottom and loads side (in the direction of the pack), the side will give the cue-ball more power and the screw might help to stop it sticking.

The one BIG problem with this is that the side will push the cue-ball so far off line that you'll almost certainly miss the pot. Adjusting for side is difficult because there are so many variables. The distance between the balls, the speed and power of the shot, the cloth, the angle of the cue, the amount of side or stun or top or screw. All of these can affect how the cue-ball will react.

I love using side. It still fascinates me 25 years after first experimenting with it. But it is very bad for my game. I miss the loads of easy pots because of my obsession with making the cue-ball behave bizarrely.

[poolqjunkie]

Thank you everyone for your help.
So, if the reds are line up like a wall parallel to the cushion, then I should aim to hit the junctions between the balls, with some running side, to get a better result, is that right? I will try that.
What I usually do is to try to have the ball hit the pack, and then bounce off the back, the bottom cushion, and come back to above the black. But I have to hit it very hard to achieve that.

[felipecocco]

I love using side. It still fascinates me 25 years after first experimenting with it. But it is very bad for my game. I miss the loads of easy pots because of my obsession with making the cue-ball behave bizarrely.

AHAHAHAHAH. I love it. I'm having a hard time sleeping tonight... and this won't help - thanks for the great laugh.

I have personally given up on side. First I can't quite get a handle on the squirt, and then since I have a BAAADD tendency to hit down on the ball, side just ends up giving me a big swerve. Faced with the situation described, I'd have to jump in with the "tons of screw and hope you don't catch one full" crowd.

[honleung80]

It sounds like you hit the cue ball too much on its side. When doing this, it's very hard to maintain accuracy. The key to obtaining side is how well you strike 'through' the cue ball.....i.e. the strength of your follow through, not how far to the side you hit the cue ball.

If you want to play side so that the cue ball deviates off the cushion, then you should never need to hit the cue ball more than 1.5 times the tip size to the left or right. Obtaining the side is all about following through the cue ball, like most shots in snooker.

The best way to practice this is by potting the yellow ball in it's nearest pocket half ball.i.e the white is about 8-10 inches below the brown. Aim no more than 1.5 tips width to the right of the cue ball and 'follow through' the point of contact straight and hard. If you do this properly you should be able to get the cue ball all the way up to the bulk cushion.

This rule applies for all shots playable. For example you could hit as far down the cue ball to get screw back but if you don't follow through hard then you won't get the cue ball reaction.

If you play with bottom and loads side (in the direction of the pack), the side will give the cue-ball more power and the screw might help to stop it sticking.

The one BIG problem with this is that the side will push the cue-ball so far off line that you'll almost certainly miss the pot. Adjusting for side is difficult because there are so many variables. The distance between the balls, the speed and power of the shot, the cloth, the angle of the cue, the amount of side or stun or top or screw. All of these can affect how the cue-ball will react.

I love using side. It still fascinates me 25 years after first experimenting with it. But it is very bad for my game. I miss the loads of easy pots because of my obsession with making the cue-ball behave bizarrely.

[dannyd0g]

I love using side. It still fascinates me 25 years after first experimenting with it. But it is very bad for my game. I miss the loads of easy pots because of my obsession with making the cue-ball behave bizarrely.

I know what you mean, i used to love getting the white to do 'amazing things' (at least i though they were - watching too much Alex Higgins i guess, and definately 'trying to run before i could walk' )

AHAHAHAHAH. I love it. I'm having a hard time sleeping tonight... and this won't help - thanks for the great laugh.

I have personally given up on side. First I can't quite get a handle on the squirt, and then since I have a BAAADD tendency to hit down on the ball, side just ends up giving me a big swerve. Faced with the situation described, I'd have to jump in with the "tons of screw and hope you don't catch one full" crowd.

Me too. Ive recently stopped using side except for very simple pots, and seeing what effects can be had with stun and screw (many more positional options than i previouly realised). This way im finally beginning to develop more consitency in potting.

Breaking a pack off potting a black is hard enough anyway. I think side just complicates the pot side of the shot even more. Besides im not sure if the side would gain anything in momentum unless you are coming off a cushion or something.

[Semih_Sayginer]

going into a flat pack off a pot on the black will depend on the angle of cut on the black WRT whether side is needed as well as how tight the pack is.

the comment ADR made is very useful. its what would be aimed for in most circumstances unless a full ball contact splits the pack and there is another easy red which youre using the pack to hold position for.

basicaly it can depend on the shot. 'every' one is that little bit different from the last time.

IMO best to watch the pros doing it and see if you can view their cueball strike and also pay attention to the cueball path afterwards, working out the spin if any on it.

it may seem like a lot of time setting up, but this is a very good shot to play in practise, varying speed etc and with fullish clusters to just a few reds. a shot that most good breakbuilders can play well, but consistantly well is something they strive to do