Break Out a pack

[poolqjunkie]

Practised this quite a bit today. Thanks for all your valuable advice and help.
Since I do not really get to watch snooker except on youtube or when there is a tournament going on, I was not aware of the flat pack issue being discussed by Willie Thorn many times. I still have not been able to find any video with him commentating, or I just do not realize it when he was.
Anyway, I did some break out with side and without, and I think there is a difference, especially after the cue ball got into the pack. It appeared to me that the cue ball had a bit more forward momentum with side.
I also try to break out the pack real hard when the balls are real tight, and I tried to hit less than a full ball, which was working much better.
If the pack was flat, but not too tight, and I caught a full red, then it will just die no matter how hard I was hitting the ball, it was kind of weird.
I also tried the break out shot when the red is potted with an angle so the cue ball has to go into a cluster and then come out again for the black. When I used a bit of running side, the break out seem to be better.
I usually do not hit the ball too hard when applying side, it is like another member here mentioned all in the follow through, and sometimes, a softer hit will yeild better result. When I want more power with the break out, I draw my cue back all the way back to my bridge, with my grip open all the way, and my elbow drop a bit on my back swing.
Anwya, thank you, and I will keep experimenting.

[stegorjus]

I know what you mean, i used to love getting the white to do 'amazing things' (at least i thought they were - watching too much Alex Higgins i guess, and definitely 'trying to run before i could walk' )

I think you might have a point here. I was at school when Alex Higgins was at his height and everyone was interested in how side worked. It was like the Holy Grail and I must have caught the bug. I don't think anyone has ever used side the way he did, not successfully at anyway.

[Shud]

If its a 3/4 ball into a flat pack, you'll need a hell of a lot of cue power to get any movement, depending on the quality of the cloth, balls, etc. If its a half-ball black into a flat pack, I tend not play the shot with deep screw. You'll nearly always end with the white pinging straight back to the side rail and back to the black. As was mentioned earlier, try stunning through to the edge red away from the black, going for a less then full ball contact. If you play this stun, or just a little above centre with running side (side towards the pack) the white can carry on to the side rail and stay middle table as opposed to heading back to the black.

ROS usually only plays that deep screw if he has a pocket to wedge the cue ball into, then drive it back through the pack.

[poolqjunkie]

If its a 3/4 ball into a flat pack, you'll need a hell of a lot of cue power to get any movement, depending on the quality of the cloth, balls, etc. If its a half-ball black into a flat pack, I tend not play the shot with deep screw. You'll nearly always end with the white pinging straight back to the side rail and back to the black. As was mentioned earlier, try stunning through to the edge red away from the black, going for a less then full ball contact. If you play this stun, or just a little above centre with running side (side towards the pack) the white can carry on to the side rail and stay middle table as opposed to heading back to the black.

ROS usually only plays that deep screw if he has a pocket to wedge the cue ball into, then drive it back through the pack.

Thank you so much. I sometimes hit it real hard and tried to hit the edge and then the cue ball went all the way down table.
I really need to get a feel for the control of this shot.
Yes, like you said, for the half ball, or a bit less black, I tend to get better result without using too much deep screw. I sometimes get the ball to hit the pack, then sort of bounce back the bottom cushion and up. If there is a red around the black, then I am fine, but not always.
I have tried the running siding shot. It is working well sometimes. But I need to practise more, I have no control of my cue ball with this shot so far.
I saw some players play this shot very well on tv. They do not hit the ball too hard, but they have the cue ball just stop around the area where they will have a shot.
Could you explain a bit more about the thing you said about ROS, please? I am not sure I understand. Thank you.

[Shud]

Well, its not just Ronnie, but any decent player going into a pack, but Ronnie was mentioned earlier in this thread. The deep screw into the pack is the shot to play if the pack is not flat (usually). If there's a gap in the pack, even a small one, playing the cueball into that gap, with screw if you want, can allow you to get movement on the bottom reds as the white pulls back into them. Similar to a flat pack however, careful playing it with running side (side into the reds), because if you don't wedge the cueball into the pack, or if the cueball comes back to the side rail you played the shot from, the side will pull the cueball back to the top rail (black rail).

[legod]

When splitting a thick pack, go for the point of weakness and between two reds. Otherwise it's like hitting a brick wall.
Sometimes you need to stun into a pack, other times you will need to use screw and side to get the cue ball to 'escape' from the pack so it doesn't get stuck.

[gettingbetter]

Even though the original specified about splitting the reds from the black. I've always found that going directly into the pack is the least effective of the 'traditional' methods. For some reason, I like to go into the pack from the black with the use of the top cushion. It seems to be more effective to me, although the arc is never consistent.

Also, I think going into the reds through the blue is probably the best. No chance of sticking to the pack, and even if you play the shot incorrectly, you often still do get a good result.

[legod]

Yep I agree with above on going in from the blue...especially if the pink is on the spot and touching the pack.

Hit the pink hard full ball and watch the reds go everywhere. Sometimes it's better this way although you have a little less margin for error. It's easy to go in off or lose the cue ball on the cushion.

A good time to go in from the black is when there is a red near one of the corner pockets so you know you have some insurance to continue your break if the pack doesn't split well. You see this sort of shot happen just about every frame on TV.

[CoachGavin]

If you have to go into the pack from the black and its a 'flat back pack' with 4 or 5 reds in a line then its usually better to stun into them. Also try hitting one of the corner reds so that you dont stick to the back of the reds. This also means that if you have not got much cue power 2 or 3 reds will come out and the white will still be free and you can always have another go later in the break. If the reds are looser then try screwing the white in but practice striking the pack where you want rather than just going for power and hoping for the best.

Hope this helps,

[noel]

practice striking the pack where you want rather than just going for power and hoping for the best.

Excellent "Life lesson" in that too Coach!


=o)

Noel

[Welshsteve]

Personally if there is a flat pack, I try and leave a half ball blue instead, but as has already been said, if you have to go into the pack from the black with a flat back pack, it is probably best to go into them with a little stun or stun run through. Even deep screw to try and hit the edge of the pack can work. This way you'll hit either edge of the pack and the white should free itself after hitting the pack.

Works for me anyway. The deep screw into the pack is only really on if there is a gap to aim at, and if you get this right, reds will be everywhere.

[gettingbetter]

BTw, can anyone give me tips on splitting the reds via the baulk colours. I know a great amount of cue power is required, but whenever I am in the right position - normally on green or yellow, I screw and it comes twice across the table.

Maybe I'm not getting through the ball all that well.

[Terry Davidson]

getting:

What you put on the cueball to break the pack from the baulk colours depends totally on the angle you have, however on every angle there is some sort of running side used. i.e.-if from green it would be right siding and opposite for yellow.

For the most part screw is not used but rather stun with side. If we use for height H1 to H10, with H5 being middle ball and also R1 to R5 or L1 to L5 and add in P1 to P10 for amount of power then normally for breaking from the green it would be something like P7/H4/R2 or R3 depending on the angle. A straighter-in green would dictate R3.

A lot of players will 'over cook' the amount of stun and end up using screw (and too much siding) and will miss the pack altogether, sometimes hitting the black. Other players with not use sufficient siding and end up going across the table between blue and pink.

Terry

[gettingbetter]

Thanks mate. I'll give that a go soon.