Screw Arc shot

[jack147]

Hello,
Could anyone please tell me how you perform the screw shot that forms an arc shape after potting the ball on. I have seen it done by many proffessionals on the black and it is used to screw into the pack of reds in an arc shape.
Is there anyone out there who can tell me how to correctly perform this shot?
Regards, Jack

[reverse_side]

I'll step up then... what's your level and standard at the mo Jack? With the white on either the green or yellow spot, could you screw the blue in off it's spot and bring it back into baulk for instance?

[RaNeN]

Umm ok! Dave is already here!

[jack147]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply, in answer to the screw shot on the blue i could probably screw back about a foot on this type of shot, but if i played for example the green into the corner pocket say 2 or 3 feet away i could screw back about 4-6 feet!

I have been playing snooker for a year now and play everyday and have a table at my house, hence why i play and practice everyday!
So how do you perform this particular arc shot?

J. Brooker

[RaNeN]

Its not exactly an 'arc-shot'. The ball goes in an arc like way because its hit at an angle. Maybe very little bottom side. You could try this yourself place the cueball on the pink spot and the blue on it spot. Try potting the blue and screwing back. When it comes back it will form an arc. Its like it will swing/sway.

Wait for reverse_side's reply he will tell you exactly what and how it is to be done.

[reverse_side]

sorry Ranen, but what Jack's asking is correct; the white does actually arc (it's path isn't straight but travelling along a "curving trajectory" to use the OED), and he's asking how he can do this too.

It's like a shot where (Ronnie esecially) he's trying to split the reds but at the bottom of the cluster there's a red or 2 stopping him spreading enough reds. What he can do is manoeuvre the white out of their path but then bring it back in above them to split the reds more because he's hitting a different part of the cluster.

When I've time (or anyone else to jump in) I can put a picture up of WHY you'd want to be able to arc the white and how arcing is sometimes unwanted and how you can use it in other circumstances.

The main point would be though, is that you've got to improve your cueball striking so you impart a lot of spin on, then delicately balance that with the pace required for it to curve like a banana.

If you can get some screw on the white then you're on the right path, to arc the white though you need to put some pace into the shot which means you need a bit of distance inbetween the white and obj ball which can reduce the amount of spin you put on the white.

If there was a drill to improve your timing then you can practice that, then find the ideal angle and distance from white to obj (black say) and then attempt the shot.

Without having a table to hand I'd have to make something up but grooving your technique so you can get the most backspin from the slowest speed shots (obj ball close) will improve your feel for those kind of shots. You'll then be able to get some 'action' on the white over longer distances (say 2 to 3 feet) which will enable you to get close to arcing the white.

I know, so we're thinking of the same shot, I'm assuming the table at home is fullsize? If it is, then try this shot for me....

with only the black and white on the table,
black on it's spot
place the white the same distance off the black cushion
move it towards whichever side cushion it's nearest to
stop it when it's the same distance from the black as it is from the cushion

this might see you play a shot like this after a few attempts when you've improved how much backspin you can get

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...sc/ArcShot.jpg

to re-create this, use http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html and then paste this code into the application
START(
%HI8O2%PI7V2%Ur2S1%V\8M2%_\1M0%`L0J1%aI7U3
)END

as you can see, when the ball has made contact with the black, it continues then it come back (iprobably needs to be a finer cut and played less full-on, but it;s good enough to start with). the more screw you but on it, the more you'll need to throw the white out for it to come back.

It's a delicate balancing act, but have a go and maybe draw up a picture on the Wei Table and post the code for us to see what you've managed.... if it's not a full-size table you might still be able to play the shot; let us know.


(edit: try START(
%CM6Q0%EN7O7%FO9Q0%HI8O2%IJ5P4%JQ2P6%KL6P2%MP7R3%O P7O0%PI7V2
%UU8Z0%VS0T8%eB3b2%_R5S8%`L1L1%aI7U3
)END in the Wei Table for a better picture of why you might need the arc shot... in the picture, if you were to play the standard screw shot, the two first reds may only be the ones to move, whereas if the white was to travel along the arc, it would scatter them all over the place with the white staying nearby... all coloured balls are reds obviously and the yellow 9-ball is just showing the potting angle )

[reverse_side]

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...c/ArcShot2.jpg

this is the tabel using the data in the edit... it;s now got the angle at which you'd pot the black and also the balls (1&3) that if you were to hit the first full on, it would plant the second and both wouldn't help split the cluster much... whereas the path of the yellow line would nicely move all those reds(!) asunder. (the distances would be slightly stretched as it'd be small balls on a larger table, but it's pretty accurate)

Arcing can also happen when you apply topspin; see the thread and pictures in the billiard sub-forum. Also in snooker when there's a ball over the pocket and when the white hits the cushion, it may still have enough topspin to make it want to stop as it's now turned into backspin because it's travelling in the opposite direction.

There's the "Jimmy" hot where you pot a red to bottom left, the white smashes it into the pocket at great pace and rebounds off with speed but then grips and he gets perfect on the black... whether he'd pot it under pressure is debatable; sorry Jim.

If you get a good angle on a break-off shot, you'll see the white deviate from the straight line you'd expect... it's when it comes off the second cushion; have a look.

Another time it bends (rather than arcs I guess) is playing a power shot into a cushion with topspin... similar to the billiard shot.

A mad looking shot is playing the black (as above) but with extreme bottom left so that it careers towards the cushion, screws away from it and then when you'd think the white would have running side and ping down, it jags back upwards towards the yellow cushion.

Lastly... found the link I was after, http://www.terwalle.com/varia_allerlei.php and go to Downloadzzzzz, Showcase.... click on any (or all) of the Jimmy links and you'll see the kind of technique required. The third one! somehow avoids hitting the green cushion.

[Jay1]

I have to say that spin on the snooker table confuses me

I would have thought that putting bottom left on the cueball as per R_S table above would bring the white back towards the black cushion (assuming that straight bottom would bring the ball into the 2 reds) rather than taking it away from the 2 reds at the bottom of the pack. If I came accross this shot on a table (and thought I was good enough to play it) I would have assumed that bottom right would be in order.

Are there any good coaching books or sites that explain the effects of different sorts of spin as obviously knowing this is going to be essential if you want to improve.

[reverse_side]

That's okay Jack, the "mad" shot was without any other balls on the table apart from the white and black; an exhibition shot when it doesn't matter. Similar to one of the Jimmy shots on the the terwalle website.

Now for the table with all the balls on it, what you'd be concentrating on would be to push the white out far enough to avoid the two reds and have enough 'work' on the ball to bring it back. There'd be no need for either left or righthand side... less to worry about.

As for learning about side; the most essential thing is to make sure your potting is great, then look at using top and bottom to improve your positional play to make the next pot easy.... let that be a nice harmonious balance of potting and then position.

When I think about side, it's mainly for generating some pace off a shot using "running side", or widening angles with "reverse side" (ho ho) or using top and bottom if I need to run through or bring the white back. Knowing it can make the shot a lot harder may make some thing that they'll practice using "natural angles" and just relying on the top and bottom spin.

To learn the reactions of a white with spin on it might be useful to visualise a large ball; maybe a beach ball and then see it rotating and then put it in the context of a shot. You could even think of your mobile spinning round if that helps to grasp a spinning object with left or RHS on it.

Eg if you've heard of reverse side and can't get your head round it, think of putting bottom with either left or righthand side on a shot that'll make the white come back to you with the white hitting the cushion at an angle.

With the thought of a large patterned beach ball you might see what the mechanics are for what's liable to happen.

... looking at a table as though it's on the tv, a straight black into the bottom left pocket with lefthand side will hit the black and then come backwards, still with LHS on it. It's spinning in a clockwise motion and when it hits the cushion it'll kick further up towards baulk than if it was hit with just bottom.

Does that make sense?

Another way to look at it, is if you imagine someone else playing the exact same shot but you're stood at the pocket the black's going into. If they play with screw and LHS, The LHS they put on it from their point of view is still LHS from your point of view so as it hits the cushion if fly further to the left than if it was a simple screw shot.

the "reverse" part of it comes from the fact you put LHS on it and the white pings off the the right; and vice versa.

So, apart from swerving round balls, using side is only ever used for position and you therefore have to make sure your potting over 85% of the balls you're attempting. Position can also be contrived as getting the white in a difficult place for your opponent after a safety shot so it's useful but opens up a whole world of potential mistakes.... and that's when you're TRYING to put side on, have a look at http://www.thesnookerforum.com/showthread-t_1000.html where Jay1 is putting side on when he doesn't want to. Another thread (instigated by the knowledge sponge that is Jay! http://www.thesnookerforum.com/showthread-t_993.html might be useful too)

It's not all bear traps and pitfalls, but if you can get 40+ breaks without using much side, then when you master the art, 80+ will be your next target.

Talking of high breaks, have a mooch over to http://www.thesnookerforum.com/showthread-t_579.html and post your best effort up.

good luck.

[RaNeN]

WOW great clips! They should be called screw-backers!

[reverse_side]

I've just realised that I saw Jay1's post and assumed it was from Jack http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...mileys/Arr.gif http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ileys/OhOh.gif http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...s/cry-laff.gif

[RaNeN]

Forgot to mention , Ronnie's also got screw back talent. Remember the Green into the long pocket and the deep screw back for the brown to the baulk? Where did we see that?

[reverse_side]

Who's this Ronnie guy Rane?

[RaNeN]

LOL I dont believe it! Ronnie O' Sullivan?

[reverse_side]

LOL I dont believe it! Ronnie O' Sullivan?

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1.../Misc/Iron.jpg http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...ide/Misc/e.gif http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...shakehands.gif teamwork! great double act.. Ranen&Rev comin to a town near you.